You don't have to choose between HD-DVD or SD-DVD. - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

08-17-1999, 04:27 PM

I just read Peter's ramblings about the future of HD-DVD etc. Why oh why do people continue to make this into a debate over "choice" that will never matter? This is not laserdisc vs DVD. There's not one format vs the other. We have a 5" optical disc. We have digital MPEG2 video. Any future HD-DVD player will read today's red-laser SD-DVD's. Allow me to ramble for a moment. Peter, please make note of these comments as the tone of your article may mislead some people:

1. When blue-laser technology becomes viable for consumer use, we will indeed get hi-def movies stored on 5" discs. They will be HD-DVD's.

2.The players that become availalbe to read these HD-DVD's will also play today's red-laser DVD's, as well as standard CD's They will be multi-format players (heck, they'll probably also play DVD-audio discs, Sony's DSD discs, and have digital fire-wire connections).

3.Those future HD-DVD players will have selectable output resolution for HD-software, so you could, for instace, play HD-DVD's and watch them in 480i on your NTSC 4x3 set.

4.Those future HD-DVD players will also have selectable resolution output for today's red-laser DVD's, so you could watch today's DVD's in 480P or upconverted to 720P or 1080I on your HDTV.

5.Just because a format becomes available doesn't mean every studio will suddenly release every title on it. Think about Disney's resistance just to give us animated titles as well as the resolution of 16x9 on red-laser DVD!!!

6.Bottom line? This is not a format war. It won't be a format war. There's no phenomenon of 'buying into' DVD only to be 'burned' when HD-DVD comes out.

It's a DVD *player* war. Don't spend thousands on a stupid Faroudja DVD player or a THX Pioneer DVD player today that just output cheezy 480I. Just spend hundreds on a nice little red-laser 480I DVD player. The future has an HD-DVD player with your name on it that will upconvert all your red-laser DVD's with near-HDTV quality. Then the debate will be when the studios will work through the copyright so we can watch our HD-DVD collection in native 1080P.

-DaViD Boulet

Colin Dunn · 08-18-1999, 12:51 AM

I think the HD-DVD fears come mostly from people who have substantial investments in their movie collections. Replacing a DVD player with an HD-DVD player may cost $1,000-$2,000; replacing 50-100 DVD movies in a collection would cost about the same (at $20/disc). Some people already brag of collections of 300-2,000 DVDs.

The fear is that HD-DVD will represent a huge improvement over SD-DVD - even more of an improvement than DVD was over laserdisc. Quality-minded individuals will then regard standard-definition DVD as "unwatchable," jettison their collections, and start over again. Those people with 300-2,000 DVDs are now looking at spending $6,000-$40,000 to replace all their movies.

In my opinion, that's an improper mindset. People with big laserdisc collections should get the best LD player (maybe even two) they can afford, and keep using those LDs until their players die. There may even remain a small market for LD players (as has happened with vinyl), though new LD production is nearly at a standstill (as is true of vinyl). It is still quite possible to buy a new, high-end turntable/tone arm/cartridge setup today (though still at high prices - that hasn't changed).

The same could also happen with DVD. In fact, due to the technologies you mentioned (line-doubling and progressive-scan DVD playback), it should be possible to adapt SD-DVD to provide "near" HD playback on HD equipment.

My advice to those who fear HD-DVD: Don't just buy movies indiscriminately. Purchase the ones you expect to keep; rent others. If you then get spoiled by HD-DVD, you'll have a smaller collection to upgrade (if progressive scan and line-doubling aren't enough).

------------------
Colin Dunn
DDS-006

08-18-1999, 03:27 PM

You make some excellent points, and I think you accurately describe what is going through most people's minds when they think of "DVD vs HD-DVD".

But I'll just reitterate that it's *NOT* a LD vs DVD format war. Imagine if when you bought your DVD player you suddenly had the ability to play all your laserdiscs on it, watch them in progressive-scan (*REAL* progressive-scan), and even get an added 33% vertical resolution on many of the widescreen titles.

Would people have been so quick to dismiss their LD libraries? Doubtfully.

Well that's what you'll get when you get your HD-DVD player with your current DVD library. You'll get a DVD player that makes your current DVD collection look better than you ever dreamed possible...on your HDTV. Sure, native HD-DVD discs will look even better, and I'm sure I'll purchase some titles over again. But while Disney debates the viability of a new format that threatens piracy yet again, I'll be watching my (hopefully some of them 16x9 by then) Disney SD-DVD's in near-HDTV quality.

For those who bought, and continue to buy, expensive 480I-limited SD-DVD players, it's their own darn fault. There's been no secret that DVD has progressive-scan potential, and there's been no secret that eventually we'll get HD-DVD players that can outperform even 480P with current DVD software.

-dave

08-18-1999, 07:00 PM

True...

I've seen my setup witness the magic of upconversion. It's a damn SHAME that non-anamorphic DVD's keeps getting released. But the magic of upconversion makes many of my better non-anamorphic DVD's look great! (don't confuse with older zoom feature like you see in many of today's 16x9 television sets, which only simply displays fewer scanlines on the screen, without upconversion). Even if the best anamorphic's like Fifth Element still looks better - there are plenty of anamorphic DVD's that don't look as good.

So I wholeheartedly agree with you: Upconversion of standard DVD's to HDTV resolutions, will look amazing! Even though resolution is not added, it adds lots of desireable effects like making the image look less pixelated and more naturally film-like looking. (Kinda like the way, many professional paint programs can resize a 200x200 JPG image into a 300x300 JPG image without the ugly or pixel-doubling artifacts. Good upconversion is often something like that.)

Just as today, if you are lucky enough to have an upconverting setup for non-anamorphic DVD, you will also see that non-anamorphic DVD can look almost as good as anamorphic (and even better than less-than-best anamorphic DVDs). Upconversion of non-anamorphic DVD to anamorphic DVD (scaling 360 interlaced scanlines to 480 progressive-scan scanlines) are found in some setups like select new 16x9 sets (like some of the newer HDTV sets that have built-in upconversion circuitry, although not all of them are designed to upconvert non-anamorphic DVD yet), as well as scaler owners like Faroudja 2200 or TranScanner, along with some Home Theater Computers with the capability in their DVD player software.

------------------
Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
www.marky.com
www.dvdtracker.com/~marky.asp

[This message has been edited by Mark Rejhon (edited 08-18-1999).]

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08-17-1999, 04:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
DaViD Boulet	You don't have to choose between HD-DVD or SD-DVD. I just read Peter's ramblings about the future of HD-DVD etc. Why oh why do people continue to make this into a debate over "choice" that will never matter? This is not laserdisc vs DVD. There's not one format vs the other. We have a 5" optical disc. We have digital MPEG2 video. Any future HD-DVD player will read today's red-laser SD-DVD's. Allow me to ramble for a moment. Peter, please make note of these comments as the tone of your article may mislead some people: 1. When blue-laser technology becomes viable for consumer use, we will indeed get hi-def movies stored on 5" discs. They will be HD-DVD's. 2.The players that become availalbe to read these HD-DVD's will also play today's red-laser DVD's, as well as standard CD's They will be multi-format players (heck, they'll probably also play DVD-audio discs, Sony's DSD discs, and have digital fire-wire connections). 3.Those future HD-DVD players will have selectable output resolution for HD-software, so you could, for instace, play HD-DVD's and watch them in 480i on your NTSC 4x3 set. 4.Those future HD-DVD players will also have selectable resolution output for today's red-laser DVD's, so you could watch today's DVD's in 480P or upconverted to 720P or 1080I on your HDTV. 5.Just because a format becomes available doesn't mean every studio will suddenly release every title on it. Think about Disney's resistance just to give us animated titles as well as the resolution of 16x9 on red-laser DVD!!! 6.Bottom line? This is not a format war. It won't be a format war. There's no phenomenon of 'buying into' DVD only to be 'burned' when HD-DVD comes out. It's a DVD player war. Don't spend thousands on a stupid Faroudja DVD player or a THX Pioneer DVD player today that just output cheezy 480I. Just spend hundreds on a nice little red-laser 480I DVD player. The future has an HD-DVD player with your name on it that will upconvert all your red-laser DVD's with near-HDTV quality. Then the debate will be when the studios will work through the copyright so we can watch our HD-DVD collection in native 1080P. -DaViD Boulet

08-18-1999, 12:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
Colin Dunn Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Austin, TX	I think the HD-DVD fears come mostly from people who have substantial investments in their movie collections. Replacing a DVD player with an HD-DVD player may cost $1,000-$2,000; replacing 50-100 DVD movies in a collection would cost about the same (at $20/disc). Some people already brag of collections of 300-2,000 DVDs. The fear is that HD-DVD will represent a huge improvement over SD-DVD - even more of an improvement than DVD was over laserdisc. Quality-minded individuals will then regard standard-definition DVD as "unwatchable," jettison their collections, and start over again. Those people with 300-2,000 DVDs are now looking at spending $6,000-$40,000 to replace all their movies. In my opinion, that's an improper mindset. People with big laserdisc collections should get the best LD player (maybe even two) they can afford, and keep using those LDs until their players die. There may even remain a small market for LD players (as has happened with vinyl), though new LD production is nearly at a standstill (as is true of vinyl). It is still quite possible to buy a new, high-end turntable/tone arm/cartridge setup today (though still at high prices - that hasn't changed). The same could also happen with DVD. In fact, due to the technologies you mentioned (line-doubling and progressive-scan DVD playback), it should be possible to adapt SD-DVD to provide "near" HD playback on HD equipment. My advice to those who fear HD-DVD: Don't just buy movies indiscriminately. Purchase the ones you expect to keep; rent others. If you then get spoiled by HD-DVD, you'll have a smaller collection to upgrade (if progressive scan and line-doubling aren't enough). ------------------ Colin Dunn DDS-006

08-18-1999, 03:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
DaViD Boulet	You make some excellent points, and I think you accurately describe what is going through most people's minds when they think of "DVD vs HD-DVD". But I'll just reitterate that it's NOT a LD vs DVD format war. Imagine if when you bought your DVD player you suddenly had the ability to play all your laserdiscs on it, watch them in progressive-scan (REAL progressive-scan), and even get an added 33% vertical resolution on many of the widescreen titles. Would people have been so quick to dismiss their LD libraries? Doubtfully. Well that's what you'll get when you get your HD-DVD player with your current DVD library. You'll get a DVD player that makes your current DVD collection look better than you ever dreamed possible...on your HDTV. Sure, native HD-DVD discs will look even better, and I'm sure I'll purchase some titles over again. But while Disney debates the viability of a new format that threatens piracy yet again, I'll be watching my (hopefully some of them 16x9 by then) Disney SD-DVD's in near-HDTV quality. For those who bought, and continue to buy, expensive 480I-limited SD-DVD players, it's their own darn fault. There's been no secret that DVD has progressive-scan potential, and there's been no secret that eventually we'll get HD-DVD players that can outperform even 480P with current DVD software. -dave

08-18-1999, 07:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mark Rejhon	True... I've seen my setup witness the magic of upconversion. It's a damn SHAME that non-anamorphic DVD's keeps getting released. But the magic of upconversion makes many of my better non-anamorphic DVD's look great! (don't confuse with older zoom feature like you see in many of today's 16x9 television sets, which only simply displays fewer scanlines on the screen, without upconversion). Even if the best anamorphic's like Fifth Element still looks better - there are plenty of anamorphic DVD's that don't look as good. So I wholeheartedly agree with you: Upconversion of standard DVD's to HDTV resolutions, will look amazing! Even though resolution is not added, it adds lots of desireable effects like making the image look less pixelated and more naturally film-like looking. (Kinda like the way, many professional paint programs can resize a 200x200 JPG image into a 300x300 JPG image without the ugly or pixel-doubling artifacts. Good upconversion is often something like that.) Just as today, if you are lucky enough to have an upconverting setup for non-anamorphic DVD, you will also see that non-anamorphic DVD can look almost as good as anamorphic (and even better than less-than-best anamorphic DVDs). Upconversion of non-anamorphic DVD to anamorphic DVD (scaling 360 interlaced scanlines to 480 progressive-scan scanlines) are found in some setups like select new 16x9 sets (like some of the newer HDTV sets that have built-in upconversion circuitry, although not all of them are designed to upconvert non-anamorphic DVD yet), as well as scaler owners like Faroudja 2200 or TranScanner, along with some Home Theater Computers with the capability in their DVD player software. ------------------ Thanks, Mark Rejhon www.marky.com www.dvdtracker.com/~marky.asp [This message has been edited by Mark Rejhon (edited 08-18-1999).]