I know noone wants to hear about this, but I have to comment on this.

[wolverkin]

***WARNING, THERE ARE SOME SPOILERS FOR THE MOVIE A.I. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT YOU MAY WANT TO SKIP THE PARAGRAPH I'VE MARKED WITH '***' ***

This has probably been going on for much longer than I've been aware, but its only within the past few years as I've matured a bit and started looking pass the status quo that I've really noticed it. I suppose with us still being in the anti-affirmative action age this shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

What I'm referring to is - IMO - hateful, vengeful or borderline racial/bigoted charicaturing of black people in American cinema. I can almost feel the countless thousands of eyeballs roll in unison as you read this. I don't want this to be overly long so I'll just offer up some examples of what I mean via fairly recent films:

Unbreakable: I'm not sure what it is about Bruce Willis, but the films he stars in almost always seem to have an undercurrent of maliciousness to them. Which is why probably why I've sworn off seeing any more of his movies. What I find disturbing about this movie is how the black character is depicted as something totally opposite to the white character. He's weak, he's not to be trusted i.e. its the same pathetic scenario I've seen on television and elsewhere time and time again, a very weak black man being paired with the usual and blaise image of the superheroic white male to *accentuate* his already overblown illusioned perfections. I despise the movie and I despise Samuel L. Jackson for willingly protraying such a dispicable role-model for millions of young black children. Definately one of the top African-American sellouts.

Matrix: I probably could have stomached Lawrence Fishburne hailing a barely there hacker as some wishywashy messaih of mankind, but the speech the main 'watchdog' character gives him as he was tied up goes way way too far. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but what I see and what I'm sure they writers really wanted certain people to see was the comparisions of black and/or 'ethnic' people to a 'disease' that has to be wiped out. You may argue that Neo 'rescuing' him cancels out whatever negativity was espoused there, but I still see it as a 'having your cake and eating it' situation. And don't get me started on Cypher and some of his comments.

The Green Mile: I'm not sure of the name of the large black guy who played the innocent, but I wish I could have taken some pleasure from his getting roasted in the chair. Not only does this film says its okay to kill innocent black people, but it also says it 'okay' to cry and feel self-righteous about it. I suppose I shouldn't have expected much as it was written by that longtime writer of bigoted fair, Stephen King. I couldn't believe the outright malice and hatred for blacks and particularly black women in general that he set to paper in Bag of Bones. I could overlook the occasional 'n' word in his works previously, but this was a new high even for him. After that I never read any of his work again. Forgive me if I didn't feel too bad about his nearly being killed in that hit and run accident. Maybe there is a modicum of justice in this world. I dunno, with this film it just seems some people have this thing about seeing black people cry like babies. Don't get me completely wrong. Some of the scenes were funny and creative even, but I just walked away from this one with a bad taste in my mouth and generally loathing the depths that American cinema has plunged to.

The Grinch: I would probably have loved this movie were it not for one callous line by Carrey that just left me 'distant' from whatever happened afterward. He's in the town, jumping around and being 'Jimminy' when out of nowhere he trys to hail a cab and when it passes him by, he says, "Its because I'm green, isn't it?!" I was stunned. Immediately I knew he was referring to the complaints by numerous black residents of New York that cabs wouldn't stop for them when they were hailed. How could something like this be even **REMOTELY** considered as humour?? I don't even want to think about how callous and drenched in embittered hatred a person would have to be to say something like this. This from someone who got his big break being a part of a mainly black comedy sketch show (I'm referring to, In Living Color, of course). After that one line, any idea of watching it again, recommending it to anyone at all or even purchasing a DVD version flew out the window. One hateful like that added nothing to the movie, but my oh my what it takes away for/from some people.

The Fifth Element: Just another example of why I'll never watch another Bruce Willis film again. To be fair he didn't write the script for the movie, but he stars in these films and they obviously appeal to him for some reason. The thing that irked me was the fact that all of the 'smelly', 'dumb', 'ugly' (Add your own incisive and poignant judgements here, join in!) aliens were played by black actors. The women who represented all of humantiy however was...well...I can't put this lightly, but it is a matter of fact...she was white. There was no indication of any other ethnicity influencing her parentage. I know that for all intents and purposes none of us are 'purely' one race or another at the genetic level, but I would expect to see just a tinge of skin coloring, slight mongolian features or maybe even dark hair...but... Another thing that I found steriotypically and intentionally damaging was the character played by Chris Tucker. I lost alot of respect for his as a black actor when I saw him in this role. I lost all respect for him as a comedic actor after wasting my money seeing Rush Hour. Not only did I find the racial remarks toward blacks insulting, but I found the remakrs aimed at Chinese-Americans *coming* from a black person inflaming as well.

I could go on and on with examples. But I'll give just one more as it was the one that prompted me to finally post something about this whole phenomenon which I've noticed for quite some time.
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**** SPOILER SECTION ALERT!! ****

The movie I'm referring to is A.I., Steven Spielberg's latest. Overall I would say that I enjoyed the film, but I was sadly dissappointed that I saw some of what I've been discussing in this film as well. Am I supposed to be amused that an android depicted by Chris Rock was launched into a large fan and ripped to shreds?? You may think I'm nitpicking, but I've seen this everywhere, even in commercials. When almost every instance of a black person's comedic routine involves him coming out the worse in whatever situtation, it becomes real noticable. I also noticed that there were an awful lot of black people in the crowd shouting and screaming alongside the other people to destroy the android vermin! Not only does something like this strike me as the place a black person *wouldn't* go to (Sure, how many black people enjoy listening to floor throbbing heavy metal music...I'm sure there are some, but not many), but quite a few of them seemed too old as well. I would venture the same for some of the white people there, but it just strikes me as even more questionable with the blacks. Just seems as if it was 'forced'. I've seen this in other films of course (The congressional scene in X-Men at the beginning for instance, where the camera zooms in on a black character as if to say, "Yes, you're there too. You're no better than us in this." Funny that it doesn't work the other way around though when it comes time to depict someone of superheroic proportions. Then the black character is usually depicted as the bar that the 'often' white character towers over.

Anyway I fairly enjoyed the movie seeing as its the first movie I've watched in the theatres since sometime last year. Its a shame that even a Spielberg film can't be totally rid of this tripe. I guess its just an indication of the times. There obviously are people out there who *want* and perhaps *need* to receive these 'inferances'. It was somewhat nice to see a fairly decent futurist film. Alot of it hearkens back to what made Blade Runner so great for me. Loved the unsugar-coated ending where the human race actually ends (Let's not be overly optimistic okay? We've raped and fattened ourselves mightily at this world's expense. Let's have some properly realistic and probable consequences of this.) I could probably overlook the stadium bit or at least fast forward through it I suppose so that this'd be 'probable' as a DVD purchase in the future.
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**** END SPOILER SECTION ****

Post continues below....

I know some might like to offer up numerous examples of why my view of how African-Americans is skewed and/or just plain wrong, but I see this stuff every day. I see it in movies, I see it in television shows. I see it in commercials. I'm not saying all films with blacks depict them in an spiteful and devious manner. Spielberg's, The Color Purple is one of my most favorite films. Its a shame that not many 'other' people feel so. Maybe 'they' didn't like white's being depicted as they were. Believe me, I can more than understand. It must be an unpleasant feeling to be stigmatized for wrongs that others have done in the past. Probably something like being stigmatized just for spite.

I also realize that cinema also an artistic medium to a certain degree, but when you expose such a medium to millions of people it has a propagandanistic (omg! Is that even a word?!) effect that a still-life painting or a sculpture doesn't have.

I could go on and on about this down through so many side-roads that I would probably have to post numerous times to make it all palattable. I'm wondering if most people will read down this far as it is.

In closing I would just like to say that American cinema just isn't what it used to be for me when I was a child. I just can't stomach actually paying to see such quipes and bits of spite and/or hate guised in humour. That's probably why alot of what I watch now is relegated to foreign films, anime and independant works which seem to be largly free of this malaise. I thought I would find it difficult to not watch most major American releases, but the movies are so godawfully bad nowadays (I finally saw the trailer for Planet of the Apes and I got one word for you: bomber. The original will still be the definitive version for me it appears. No amount of effects can top the now classic final scene with Heston)that I'm not missing anything.

-Wolverkin

[This message has been edited by wolverkin (edited 06-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by wolverkin (edited 06-30-2001).]

[Filmmaker]

I'll just state that I disagree with the majority of your statments, but I'm a white guy, so maybe that diminishes my opinions for you. I have two general points to make: one, please lighten up. The key towards breaking down the walls of racism lies with our collective ability to laugh with and at each other. We were heading nicely down that path in the '70s and '80s when the P.C. movement came along and flushed that potential for progress right down the proverbial toilet. If every single joke or sight gag with a race reference immediately earns your ire, you're in for a life of barely bottled rage, because much of this type of humor isn't, and shouldn't be, going anywhere--it is a symbol of the growing pains we humans must engage in to better understand one another. Two, why is that the millions of times that a white person is portrayed as an idiot, or is put through physical hardships, or even killed, for comedy, we just look right past that as run-of-the-mill, but as soon as it's a minority, it's latent racism? I attended a high school that was over 50% black, enjoy the works of high-profile minority artists like Spike Lee and Ang Lee, and consider myself very aware of racism in the world around us, of which there is boatloads full, but I really think you're just looking for things that simply aren't there...

My white American $0.02...

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...and the fun doesn't stop there--check out how the madness all began with Filmmaker's Laserdisc Tracker list!

[This message has been edited by Filmmaker (edited 06-30-2001).]

I didn't see you making any comments about stand-up comedians.

Bruce Willis wrote neither Unbreakable nor 5th Element. You should (for whatever good reason you've convinced yourself of) blame the WRITERS if anyone else. Pay attention, they have a credit in the film, just like the star.

Oh, and it couldn't be that with Bag of Bones, King was attempting to write something with historic truth to it. No, that couldn't be.

Oh, another funny thing. Jim Carrey did not write Grinch. Why in gods name are you blaming the actors? That would be like blame Salinger for the death of John Lennon.

You seem to want someone to blame, someone specific. Your comments on The Matrix are also absurd, and I think you're trying to FIGHT, and, again, are trying to convince yourself you're right. You're using flimsy (if apparent at all) arguements with no real proof.

You lost respect for Chris Tucker in 5th Element? Not Friday? It's ok for him to be a stereotypical black guy from the ghetto in a comedy, but it's not ok for him to be an entertainer in the future? Makes sense.

You're comment about the X-Men, it seems to wrap up all of your trouble. You think too much. You take all of this way too seriously. Hopefully you have a little more faith in the average movie-goer, who does not fall for this crap, as you have.

I don't think any of the films you've mentioned are there to portray blacks in a negative light. And I'm certain that people, once viewing these films, have not changed their stance on ethnics in general. There's racism everywhere. You're attacking fiction. You'd best fight somewhere else.

[This message has been edited by stiles (edited 06-30-2001).]

[Rogue]

Wolverkin,

You attack Sam Jackson and Laurence Fishburne, as well as their respective movies, for their negative portrayal of blacks. However, can you tell me with certainty that when these screenplays were written that the parts were ALWAYS intended for a black actor?
This is an important point. If the answer is no, and black actors got the role because they beat out others(i.e. white actors) for it, your argument dies right there.

I also have a problem with your comments on Stephen King. I thought the execution of John Coffey in 'The Green Mile' was tragic. That is without a doubt the reaction King and Darabont were aiming for. And King doesn't portray blacks negatively in his books. I am reminded of Dick Halloran in 'The Shining'. That character was heroic. The only thing you can have a problem with is that he doesn't have enough blacks in his books. However, he IS white. And isn't the first rule of writing 'write what you know'? I just don't see the racism in his work.

Your problem with 'The Grinch' is silly. You are really reaching there. Lighten up.

Now, don't come back and tell me my problem is that I am white. In fact, I am Hispanic. And, occasionally, I encounter racism. Never to the point a black person would have to, but it is there. I just don't see it where you do.


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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."

[1138]

Big chip on the shulder. This, to me, seems like a case of taking something too far.

Why is it bad that some black people portray villians? I think it's great. They deserve just as much a chance to play a variety of rolls as any other ethnicity. I think you read way too much into the Unbreakable plot. First off, it was a minority (in this case, Indian) who wrote the script, M. Night Shyamalan. He probably chose Willis not because he wanted the white guy to play the hero, but because he enjoyed working with Willis in The Sixth Sense. And Samuel L Jackson decided to play the role. M. Night probably chose him not because he can be a weak black villian, but becuase the guy can act, and how.

I'd say the same pretty much goes for most all of the other examples you listed. But I'll also just address AI since I just saw that. ***Spoilers***:

Sure there wer eblack people in the crowd and stuff, but there were a lot of white pople too. What's so wrong about showing them all as equals. You then claim that black people wouldn't be at a place like that. Now who's being stereotypical? /Spoilers

Anyway, I think you're trying to see too much into things. Most of the black actors you listed are good ones, and so that's probably why they got chosen to play their respected roles.

And BTW, though it shouldn't matter, it probably does in some peoples minds, I'm an ultra liberal hispanic.

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1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter
And this here's the TV. Two hours a day, either educational or football, so you don't ruin your appreciation of the finer things.

[UserNameUndecided]

I find it quite ironic when some people have to look so hard for a reason to hate, and be angry, are the most offended by racism. The intolerant bashing the intolerant.
I think that a black person being able to play a villain, or a hero, or whichever role he wants to, is a huge step forward from when the only black roles you would see were that of servants or slaves like in Gone with the Wind, and Shirley Temple films.
The Green Mile reference (amongst all the others) was quite ludicrous. To say that it was racist just because a black man under those circumstances was being portrayed in a historically accurate way is insane. If you had seen that movie without being so easily offended, you would have seen that the film makes the audience feel for this character, and view the people who treated him badly as the enemy. And really, being happy because Stephen King was hit by a car because he wrote about a certain time period without censoring the truth is about 10 times more hateful than making a humerous comment (or serious one) concerning racism.
Racism is a very serious topic I know, but when it is taken as seriously as you have taken it, it only makes it worse.

[Soggy Bagel's Revenge!]

Look, the majority of you comments just dind't make any sense at all. I didn't even think that Sam jackson's character was written as specifically a black person in "Unbreakable", Shayamlan just thought that Jackson was a very talented actor who could play the part. I'd also think of the role as a step in the right direction, as most entertainment sadly displays all balcks as simple isiots, and that's just not very positive. And in "Unbreakable", the black character is, quite simply, a genius.

Also, it seems that you're really separating black people with comments by saying black people wouldn't or shouldn't do this or that, and I understand, becuase I tend to do the same thing with my minority, the homosexual community, but it's really that kind of separation that keeps all of the negative stereotypes running. I think if more people just sat back and didn't worry at all about race, nobody would care! If you happen to meet a rascist person, just ignore them, as I do to people who think homosexuality is wrong. What they do IS really wrong, but if you start ignoring them, everyone else will, too. I mean, I think that entertainment that segregates people of different races really doesn't do anything but make things more difficult. Anyway, I'm just going on and on, I'll stop now.

Thanx,
Brook

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[Blade]

Originally posted by wolverkin:
Matrix: I probably could have stomached Lawrence Fishburne hailing a barely there hacker as some wishywashy messaih of mankind, but the speech the main 'watchdog' character gives him as he was tied up goes way way too far. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but what I see and what I'm sure they writers really wanted certain people to see was the comparisions of black and/or 'ethnic' people to a 'disease' that has to be wiped out. You may argue that Neo 'rescuing' him cancels out whatever negativity was espoused there, but I still see it as a 'having your cake and eating it' situation. And don't get me started on Cypher and some of his comments.

Can't comment on too many of these I haven't seen them yet, but I think you've misinterpreted the scene with Agent Smith talking about humans being a virus. (Don't remember the Cypher comments, but remember that Cypher was a traitor and a coward with no redeeming qualities, so any opinion he expresses is clearly meant to be wrong).

First of all, you need to remember that the "person" giving the speech is the representation of the film's big baddie, the Matrix. So again, like Cypher, no one is meant to sypathize with anything he says.

Next, in this scene the film is trying to draw a parallel between the past racism against blacks, with how Agent Smith feels about humans. The point here is not to glorify it, but rather to show how hatred of anyone for simply being what they are is a bad and irrational thing.

Finally, one could say that having a black man serve as Agent Smith's "everyman" target for his anti-human diatribe is an affirmation that blacks are just as human as anyone else.

After going over this, I'd have to say that these things were really pretty obvious. I didn't read your other objections, but if they are similar to your objections to the Matrix, I think the problem may be more with you than with the films.

I'm not saying that there aren't negative and racist statements against blacks in modern movies, but to see such in the above example should cause you to consider that you have let your own biases take you to a point where you are seeing discrimination when it's not there.

I don't say this to offend you, but seeing how much effort you've put into this, and seeing how far off the mark you were in at least one instance (the Matrix), I'm really just concerned that you're getting too upset over things that aren't really there.

[Miggy]

Wolverkin,

Many others have already skillfully responded to your comments about the specific movies you mentioned, so there's nohting more need to be said about those. But, I did want to add another defense for Stephen King. As someone who has read the vast majority of his work, I do not see any examples of racist motivation on his part - other than the afore-mentioned fact that maybe there just aren't enough blacks or other minorities in his stories for you. Other than that, show me one short story, novella, novel or poem where the purpose of which is to be dergogatory towards any minority. He has used the "n" word before, but was used either in a historically accurate setting or by someone who's not SUPPOSED to be nice (the antagonist). Your picking out such examples remind me of the religious right (I am a Christian, but have disagreements about some of their stances) picking out certain words or issues contained within a song and declaring it evil without bothering to check for the context.

You certainly have the right to your opinions and I thank you for taking the time to share them with us. But, I've said it before and will say it again that racism will never go away if we keep LOOKING for it.

Miggy, the Thief

[Chris in OC]

I think it's entirely possible that someone might write, cast, direct, or even star in a movie because of latent racist tendencies, but most of the time, I doubt this is true. As Freud noted, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I also find it ridiculous that actors with the stature and obvious self-respect of Laurence Fishburne and Samuel Jackson would be involved in a project that served only to demean any ethnic group, let alone their own. If you're concerned about the characters they portray, why not contact them for their points of view? It might not be forthcoming (these are busy people, after all) but you never know.

[This message has been edited by Chris in OC (edited 07-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Chris in OC (edited 07-01-2001).]

[saraswati]

Wolverkin --

as a white, middle class american who's had a lot of priveleges in life, i can't really offer an opinion on your comments. however, they reminded me of something i read in a magazine article about a year ago.

the article was about racism and as the relationship between blacks and whites in today's society. the woman writing the article stated that she felt offended when she was near a white woman (in an elevator, on the subway, something like that), and the woman tossed or played with her hair. she said she felt it was a hostile gesture meant to taunt her for having "inferior" african hair.

i thought this statement was ridiculous. as a white girl with long, straight hair, i often find myself tossing it out of my face or out from under the straps of my bag. sometimes i play with my hair when i'm bored or uncomfortable. i don't do this to offend people who don't have long straight "white" hair. i do it for practical reasons, or sometimes as an unconscious habit.

i almost resented the fact that someone had to search so far to read racism into a random habit. and now, when i find myself next to an african-american woman, i worry that she'll be offended if i play with my hair. in a way, that comment made me more conscious of race, because if i didn't think about the differences in hair, it wouldn't even occur to me that we are of different races.

Basically, what i'm saying here, is that you should be reasonable in what you consider racism. When you search for it and "warn" everyone that it offends you, it makes people far more aware of race than they would have been if you had never brought it up. and i thought the whole point of equality was to treat everyone the same, without having to worry about offending or insulting. to not think, "oh, that black actor Sam Jackson..." or "that hispanic guy Luis Guzman..." but to just watch, and enjoy.

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[Templar]

I just want to say for the record that in The Fifth Element that the aliens that you're speaking of "play" humans. One does indeed play a black person. Another two, while trying to get on the transport play (and are played by) a white man and a white woman. I think you're looking too hard for what you seek. Like the people who see the Virgin Mary in a pattern of crazed glass or someone who sees the silhouetted profile of Elvis in the mold on their refrigerator.

Then again I'm white, so maybe it's moot.

But I'm sure that you're wrong about The Fifth Element...

Additionally I'm upset about your interpretation of Unbreakable and AI. It seems to me that there was:

A. An Indian drug dealer (played by the director).
B. A white sicko killer.
C. A white-trash type pistol carrier.

Shall I be offended that a white dude was portrayed as a dumb sicko? Or shall I be equally offended that Gary Oldman's Zorg in The Fifth Element was a mastermind type bad guy? So my question is:

If the bad guys who are (supposedly) all black in The Fifth Element aren't smart enough for you, and Mr. Glass isn't good enough for you because, despite the fact he's the smartest villian, he's got some physical weaknesses.

Likewise AI had far more "white" robots being destroyed...as opposed to the single black one.

I think you're complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Additionally I think you're making the (rather ridiculous) assumption that people learn how to behave / act / think / feel from watching the movies. John Coffey's death wasn't supposed to be a statement about how its "OK to kill innocent black people." so much as it was part of a STORY. I find it hard to read your interpretation into that film. Did Bamboozeled "say" it was OK to stereotypically depict black people? If not, why? Because Spike Lee is black? Isn't that racist?

I would implore you to stop looking for racism...or if you must seek it out, look for it where it matters...criticize the Klan, or Skinheads or whatever...not the movies...that's just not right.

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Yeah, well...sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

[This message has been edited by Templar (edited 07-02-2001).]

[Hank]

other than thinking this post is unrealistic and can be argued either way. Wolverkin you do need to lighten up or you'll become a raacist!

1138 - I never knew you were an ultra liberal hispanic. Being an ultra liberal in this day and age can very difficult

Anyway I read the posts and cannot say I agree at all, however if you cannot laugh at yourself then who can you ever laugh at.

I think we should all be equal and breaking stereo types starts with laughing at them. I know the more immune you are to certain stereotypes the less they seem to be used and there lasting power goes away!

Peace

[Istagi]

Wolverkin -

I hate to rain on your parade buddy but blacks have it pretty good in Hollywood.

To help make my point I will use the Green Mile. A movie that you accuse of being racist towards blacks.

Remember Grahm Green's character. He was called chief through out the film. Never heard his name. Never heard what he did or anything about him. Other than he liked to fuck his wife on a mountain top.

His character was a prop used for two purposes.

1. To show off how the electric chair was suposed to work, and give american film audiences the thrill of watching one more dirty indian biting the dust.

2. A horrific joke about cherokee medicine men waving their dicks around.

You actually cared about John Koffee and the french man with the mouse but there was no reason to care about "Cheif".

Another example was in the recent horrible film "The Pledge" There was one Indian character who was framed for a little girls death. he was retarded, drunk, dirty, and a constant criminal. The character quickly commits a messy suicide.

All this is added to the crap that gets flushed down the tubes with Pocahontas, Last of the Mohicans, Last of the Dogmen and other tripe.

Blacks in Hollywood play all roles and can and are used in all situations. Anyone ever see an Indian computer programer, scientist, or business professional?

No I didn't think so. Yet Indian people are computer programers, scientistsm and business professionals. Americans just never get to see them that way.

Things can always be worse Wolver, you do not have much to complain about.

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David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[med]

Quote : "I despise the movie and I despise Samuel L. Jackson for willingly protraying such a dispicable role-model for millions of young black children." wolverkin

Last I heard, being an extremely well-known, successful actor who gets paid millions of dollars per movie didn't fall under the "dispicable role-model" category...

quote: "Blacks in Hollywood play all roles and can and are used in all situations. Anyone ever see an Indian computer programer, scientist, or business professional?" Istagi

I'm not trying to shoot down your point, Istagi (Which was one of many very good ones), but the one Native American character that I can remember off the top of my head, besides the ones mentioned by you, was the positively portrayed Detective Casals in "Heat", played by Wes Studi. He wasn't a biologist or a computer programmer, but he was a damn good cop.

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Apology Accepted, Captain Needa

[egman]

I thought I would throw my 2 cents in as well.

Being black myself, I often spot things about race that others might miss. However, some of the examples used in this thread were strechted too far. I remember in the Rush Hour 2 thread I said there was a thin line between what can be consider rasicts or funny. While I thought a particular line in that film(you all look alike) did cross that line, I'm not sure the examples here cross that line. I thought the example of Bruce
Willis was particularly strained.

It's one thing to hold the media accountable for falling back on stereotypes. However, other people will find it hard to support this cause when you start reading too much in coincidences. You start to make something out of totally unintentional gestures. If we're going to combat rascism, we also have to straddle a thin line and work hard to discern between the intentional and the unintentional.

[SeanL]

There have been some good points made here, so I'll just say that I think you're looking for racism behind every bush.
It'll consume you if you're not careful...



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Sean

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

[Adjuster]

Matrix: I probably could have stomached Lawrence Fishburne hailing a barely there hacker as some wishywashy messaih of mankind, but the speech the main 'watchdog' character gives him as he was tied up goes way way too far. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but what I see and what I'm sure they writers really wanted certain people to see was the comparisions of black and/or 'ethnic' people to a 'disease' that has to be wiped out

Did you know that Val Kilmer was originally supposed to play the role that went to Fishburne. Kinda kills your argument there. BTW, these movies are scripted waaaaaay before they are cast, so unless the script actually mentions a character's race, the job usually goes to the best actor.

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"I've got a bad feeling about this...."
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