Missing!! Reasonable 16:9 tv's in the US - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

kxs156 · 07-18-2001, 08:39 PM

I saw this question posed a year ago on this forum and I just have to bring it up again:

Why are there no inexpensive 16:9 tv's available in the USA?

Having just returned from Europe I have seen enough sub-$1000 28-32" 16:9 sets to make me cry. Even though 16:9 broadcasts aren't that common everyone's buying these sets. And I can certainly see why: DVD playback is stunning. And the stretch algorithms employed to deal with 4:3 content are very impressive so no "grey bars" in sight.

Meanwhile, back in high-tech USA we are stuck with $3000+ "HDTV"-ready sets. Great, but that's years away, programming is more or less non-existant, and don't forget the cost of a digital tuner. Even the 2006 NTSC turnoff date is nothing but certain anymore, mainly due to the snail's pace adaption of HDTV sets.

So what about now?? There will be DVD players in 1/4 of all US households by the end of the year. Most DVD's look better on 16:9 tv's. Atleast some of those DVD owners recognize and appreciate true "widescreen".

I can't see any technical impediments to selling the cheaper 16:9 tubes here in the USA (heck, most of the Euro models already display NTSC signals). And there are plenty of DVD owners who see the value of 16:9 but don't have the cash to spring for an HDTV set. So what is this but either complete ignorance or manipulation of the market by major electronics manufacturers...?

Are they so afraid to "confuse" the market? Are they scared cheap 16:9's would eat into their HDTV set sales? Have they forgotten volume wins at the end of the day.

And what is the technical problem anyway? If I bought a "standard" 16:9 set now, and later added a digital tuner I would also be able to watch HDTV when it eventually comes along, no?

Anyone care to comment?

Taxi · 07-18-2001, 08:56 PM

Well, actually, no.

16x9 does not equal HDTV or DTV.

But I think in today's market, more and more 16:9 sets are HD compatible.

kxs156 · 07-18-2001, 09:29 PM

16:9 does not equal HDTV, no doubt.

But in response to your reply I would think (or atleast hope for the sake of HDTV adoption) that there will be transition devices; cheap small tuner boxes that receive HDTV signals and downgrade them to a composite or RF output.

People who buy non-HDTV sets these days (99.9%), especially the large ones, will be quite pissed otherwise. If everyone's supposed to buy a new set the HDTV transition will go on for the next 20 years.

Anyway, my question is really not as much about HDTV as it is why no one is selling non-HDTV 16:9 sets.

cw2000 · 07-19-2001, 01:07 AM

In the UK widescreen tv uptake is massive (and getting bigger since dvd was released)

1 in 3 TV owned in the UK is Widescreen

50% of tvs currently being sold in the UK are widescreen.

A majority of widescreen tv broadcasts are done on digital tv (terestrial, cable, sky), channels like the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 show more than 50% of their content in widescreen, other channels are also in widescreen (some 100% of the time)

You can get 28" 16:9 sets for less that £350 ($500)

Sony have recently released DRC (Digital Reality Creation) TVs in the UK which basically map a standard PAL signal on to an HDTV waveform with advanced processing to create a near HDTV quality pictures. (looks amazing on their 50" tv)

Almost all European TVs made within the last 5 years support both PAL and NTSC.

Almost all TVs in the UK support RGB via SCART (more or less component video quality) even low end tvs have them.

Europe was given a choice, back HDTV technology which limits them a a small amount of channels at high cost, or back digital tv (PAL) with lots of channels which would be easier to fund. Europe decided on lots of channels as it gives more choice.

Austrailia decided on the HDTV route but all the Austrailia tv companies and film studios are trying to get this cancelled as they believe it will be to costly to run.

***1138*** · 07-19-2001, 02:20 AM

One of the big problems plaguing both the widescreen and DTV/HDTV markets here in the US is the whole chicken or egg thing. The broadcasters are dragging because there' not many of the TV's out there and there's not too many affordable TV's out there because the demand is low due to lack of broadcasts.

Fortunately, the government seems intent on making the broadcasters go first, so it will happen hopefully.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess.

[This message has been edited by 1138 (edited 07-18-2001).]

***Chromy*** · 07-19-2001, 03:09 AM

Are these cheap TV's being sold in the UK having line doublers? I know that they are 16x9, but are they HDTV ready (can they handle the higher resolutions e.g. 1920x1080) or are they DTV sets?

This could be at least an explanation for the price difference.

Chromy

***1138*** · 07-19-2001, 03:11 AM

What kind of HDTV does Europe have? Last I heard, it wasn't going to be the same as ours.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess.

kxs156 · 07-19-2001, 07:59 PM

1138:

As far as I understand it the US government (FCC) has mandated a changeover to HDTV by a certain date. But they have not specified a transmission standard and so the networks and local broadcasters can choose to use their HDTV bandwidth as they please.

The ATSC standards include everything from 1920x1080 to 640x480, so it's very possible to watch a "HDTV" signal that looks no better than current NTSC.

Why would anyone broadcast at low resolutions? Simple, they can fit multiple channels into their allocated bandwidth. Broadcasters are drooling at the possibility of earning extra revunue this way.

So with no real government push towards real, High Definition Television where is the incentive to buy a High Resolution TV?

***1138*** · 07-19-2001, 09:10 PM

Yeah, I know about the multiple channels per bandwidth idea. Fucking boradcasters.

Last I heard though, the government was aware of this whole situation and was maybe going to try to take action to enforce higher quality signals.

One problem with thtis whole thing is how convoluted and a mess it is. Bah! Give my my HDTV!

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess.

07-18-2001, 08:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
kxs156 Supporting Actor Join Date: Aug 2000	Missing!! Reasonable 16:9 tv's in the US I saw this question posed a year ago on this forum and I just have to bring it up again: Why are there no inexpensive 16:9 tv's available in the USA? Having just returned from Europe I have seen enough sub-$1000 28-32" 16:9 sets to make me cry. Even though 16:9 broadcasts aren't that common everyone's buying these sets. And I can certainly see why: DVD playback is stunning. And the stretch algorithms employed to deal with 4:3 content are very impressive so no "grey bars" in sight. Meanwhile, back in high-tech USA we are stuck with $3000+ "HDTV"-ready sets. Great, but that's years away, programming is more or less non-existant, and don't forget the cost of a digital tuner. Even the 2006 NTSC turnoff date is nothing but certain anymore, mainly due to the snail's pace adaption of HDTV sets. So what about now?? There will be DVD players in 1/4 of all US households by the end of the year. Most DVD's look better on 16:9 tv's. Atleast some of those DVD owners recognize and appreciate true "widescreen". I can't see any technical impediments to selling the cheaper 16:9 tubes here in the USA (heck, most of the Euro models already display NTSC signals). And there are plenty of DVD owners who see the value of 16:9 but don't have the cash to spring for an HDTV set. So what is this but either complete ignorance or manipulation of the market by major electronics manufacturers...? Are they so afraid to "confuse" the market? Are they scared cheap 16:9's would eat into their HDTV set sales? Have they forgotten volume wins at the end of the day. And what is the technical problem anyway? If I bought a "standard" 16:9 set now, and later added a digital tuner I would also be able to watch HDTV when it eventually comes along, no? Anyone care to comment?

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07-18-2001, 08:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Taxi Admin Emeritus Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Orygun	Well, actually, no. 16x9 does not equal HDTV or DTV. But I think in today's market, more and more 16:9 sets are HD compatible.

07-18-2001, 09:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
kxs156 Supporting Actor Join Date: Aug 2000	16:9 does not equal HDTV, no doubt. But in response to your reply I would think (or atleast hope for the sake of HDTV adoption) that there will be transition devices; cheap small tuner boxes that receive HDTV signals and downgrade them to a composite or RF output. People who buy non-HDTV sets these days (99.9%), especially the large ones, will be quite pissed otherwise. If everyone's supposed to buy a new set the HDTV transition will go on for the next 20 years. Anyway, my question is really not as much about HDTV as it is why no one is selling non-HDTV 16:9 sets.

07-19-2001, 01:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
cw2000 Actor Join Date: May 2001	In the UK widescreen tv uptake is massive (and getting bigger since dvd was released) 1 in 3 TV owned in the UK is Widescreen 50% of tvs currently being sold in the UK are widescreen. A majority of widescreen tv broadcasts are done on digital tv (terestrial, cable, sky), channels like the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 show more than 50% of their content in widescreen, other channels are also in widescreen (some 100% of the time) You can get 28" 16:9 sets for less that £350 ($500) Sony have recently released DRC (Digital Reality Creation) TVs in the UK which basically map a standard PAL signal on to an HDTV waveform with advanced processing to create a near HDTV quality pictures. (looks amazing on their 50" tv) Almost all European TVs made within the last 5 years support both PAL and NTSC. Almost all TVs in the UK support RGB via SCART (more or less component video quality) even low end tvs have them. Europe was given a choice, back HDTV technology which limits them a a small amount of channels at high cost, or back digital tv (PAL) with lots of channels which would be easier to fund. Europe decided on lots of channels as it gives more choice. Austrailia decided on the HDTV route but all the Austrailia tv companies and film studios are trying to get this cancelled as they believe it will be to costly to run.

07-19-2001, 02:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	One of the big problems plaguing both the widescreen and DTV/HDTV markets here in the US is the whole chicken or egg thing. The broadcasters are dragging because there' not many of the TV's out there and there's not too many affordable TV's out there because the demand is low due to lack of broadcasts. Fortunately, the government seems intent on making the broadcasters go first, so it will happen hopefully. ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess. [This message has been edited by 1138 (edited 07-18-2001).]

07-19-2001, 03:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
*Chromy* Producer/Admin Coffee Boy Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Greater Seattle Area, WA	Are these cheap TV's being sold in the UK having line doublers? I know that they are 16x9, but are they HDTV ready (can they handle the higher resolutions e.g. 1920x1080) or are they DTV sets? This could be at least an explanation for the price difference. Chromy

07-19-2001, 03:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	What kind of HDTV does Europe have? Last I heard, it wasn't going to be the same as ours. ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess.

07-19-2001, 07:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
kxs156 Supporting Actor Join Date: Aug 2000	1138: As far as I understand it the US government (FCC) has mandated a changeover to HDTV by a certain date. But they have not specified a transmission standard and so the networks and local broadcasters can choose to use their HDTV bandwidth as they please. The ATSC standards include everything from 1920x1080 to 640x480, so it's very possible to watch a "HDTV" signal that looks no better than current NTSC. Why would anyone broadcast at low resolutions? Simple, they can fit multiple channels into their allocated bandwidth. Broadcasters are drooling at the possibility of earning extra revunue this way. So with no real government push towards real, High Definition Television where is the incentive to buy a High Resolution TV?

07-19-2001, 09:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Yeah, I know about the multiple channels per bandwidth idea. Fucking boradcasters. Last I heard though, the government was aware of this whole situation and was maybe going to try to take action to enforce higher quality signals. One problem with thtis whole thing is how convoluted and a mess it is. Bah! Give my my HDTV! ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator We're gonna need some more FBI guys I guess.