Look BEFORE You Post!

[Czar]

SOAP BOX MODE...SKIP IF YOU DON'T LIKE CRITICISM.

I know I will get flamed for this thread but it is worth it to see some threads with substance!

I have been mulling around in my mind several things that irk me about people who post on these DVD forums. I have also made some conclusions.

First, someone just posted a repeat...repeat...repeat thread. Someone else mentioned the fact the topic had been brought up many times before and linked to those threads. The person who posted the original thread said that they would be damned if they were going to look through a decade worth of threads to see if the topic had been touched on before. To me that is the epitome of laziness and immaturity! They rather take up bandwidth and trash the forum with the same old topics that have been beat to death than to LOOK BEFORE THEY POST!

Speaking of immaturity. I have a feeling that there is a generation gap between people who post at the HTF and who post here. That the majority of people who post at DVDFile is in their 20's or younger where as those who post at HTF are in their 20's-40's. A more mature crowd... and the threads show it.

Also, I get the feeling that through some of the topics I have seen here that people could care less about the content of a film to stand alone on its own merits. Subject lines which start with "What Is The Best..." tells me that these people have no idea what they want other than the latest bells and whistles to give them the W W Factor. I noticed this more recently with the upcoming release of Citizen Kane. Many reacted with "Citizen...who?". Here is a film that is an all time classic. Has been at the top of the AFI 100 list for years, and was at one time one of the most wanted DVD's. People have become spoiled with mega blockbuster FX films and could care less now about the "true" classics.

The bottom line is that DVD collectors have become a spoiled breed of "want it all, want it perfect, want it this and that way, and want it cheap". They also want the latest thrill rather they like the movie or not... all of which just gives them away as being immature.

Now we are back to the beginning.

[This message has been edited by Czar (edited 07-23-2001).]

[saraswati]

if you like HTF better, go there, troll.

------------------
deep in the heat of the bush...

[Filmmaker]

Dude, if the HTF strikes you as being more mature than this forum, you might want to see how much money you can get for that crack you're on! The HTF is the biggest den of self-absorbed elitists I've ever seen, and they have all of the light-heartedness and sense of humor of roadkill (though I can give credit where credit is due--if you can wade through the "my sh*t doesn't stink" atmosphere, they are a superb source of DVD/LaserDisc info). Some of your points may have validity, but if you don't like the atmosphere here, head on out--like I did with the HTF...

------------------
A curious mix of the best and worst in motion picture entertainment--that's right, it's Filmmaker's DVDTracker list!
...and the fun doesn't stop there--check out how the madness all began with Filmmaker's Laserdisc Tracker list!

[1138]

sara got it correctly. This is huge troll bait. Don't even respond trying to argue the 'points', it ain't worth the time.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored.

[Templar]

You mean you don't like it when people don't read? Like you didn't notice that there's a whole forum for this type of topic...called...amazingly enough...The Soapbox?

So what if someone asks a question that may have been answered before? If it's an inconvience to the moderaters here I've never heard them complain. I think this "do the research yourself" attitude is an extension of the dearth of self-confidance that pervades the HTF. Most of the members there take excessive pride in their knowledge and will lord it over you if they think they can. I guess you need something in life to take pride in. Frankly, though, it's sad that they need that crutch to hold them up.

Nevertheless, your vast overgeneralization is completely without merit. So what if some members here want DVDs for extra features, and not just for the movie? Who are you to mandate that the merit of a DVD should be proportionate to the critical evaluation of the moive on it?

Are you saying you want to pay more for less content and you want it imperfect? Don't you, too, want:

want it all, want it perfect, want it this and that way, and want it cheap

If not, I don't call that mature, I call it dumb. Maybe it occurs with the loss of brain cells when you get up into your 30s.

The most immature thing I can think of is posting non-constructive insulting comments about a group of people, making rash, often outright wrong, generalizations. I know the HTF has been down for a while, but that's no reason to come to DVDFile and throw a tantrum.

------------------
Yeah, well...sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

[Jerry Gracia]

I spend nearly all of my time at the HTF. I must admit that I am only here because the HTF is down. But I forgot about some of the cool folks here, I will hang out more often.

There is alot of johnny-come-latelys at the HTF, but hey...they are one of the largest and most popular HT forums out there and I think that the Administrators say things that are really only directed towards the newbies who tend to ignorantly/innocently start up threads on subjects they really have no experience to talk about.

Every now and again, they get a bit too protective I think, but...its their forum, they can run it however they please.

They have some the most enlightened members I've seen on any board. From studio reps to manufacturer reps...you gotta love that. And most members at the HTF really KNOW what they're talking about.

Some people just need to shut up, listen and learn over there.




------------------
LuvLBX

[Logan 5]

Hmmm ... by maturity ... do you mean closed-minded and ignorant? Logan 5

------------------
RENEW OR RUN.

[This message has been edited by Logan 5 (edited 07-23-2001).]

[1138]

You have to question the 'maturity' of a person who comes in saying essentially that you suck.

We've had multiple threads talking about the merits of Citizen Kane among many other more civil and dense material topics.

Unfurtunately, the people that give a group a bad rep also seem to be the most vocal usually too. There's plenty of great people, like Jerry Gracia, who frequent HTF too.

But like I said, if you just keep responding to the first post specifically, you're only going to 'feed the troll'. I think we're all pretty sure about how things really are. No need to try and convince Czar of it. Waste of time.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored.

[Fart Lighter]

HTF is said by many to be the worst film-related forum on the net, and I certanly had that confirmed personally for me recently.

It may seem more mature, but it's only becuase they're more arrogant and self-righteous. Avoid.

[Czar]

I believe the first line of my post stated to "Skip If You Don't Like Critism". I expected flaming but when a person lowers themselves to name calling (hence "troll") or have to prove that they are right and you are wrong (not giving a persion an open mind and opinion) then that only adds to the fact of immaturity. Moderators included!

[Istagi]

Czar I see plenty of "want it all, want it perfect, want it this and that way, and want it cheap".

There are also plenty of repeat topics on the HTF as well.

What you need to understand is that we are not the HTF, and do not want to be the HTF.

If you like the HTF better than why are you here? Other than to troll.

------------------
David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[This message has been edited by Istagi (edited 07-23-2001).]

[Istagi]

Oh BTW moving to the soapbox forum. I guess some people need to read forum descriptions before they post eh.

I will be happy when the HTF is back up

------------------
David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[SeanL]

Well, if you're truly representative of the HTF, then if I never post on the HTF again, it'll be too soon.

They also want the latest thrill rather they like the movie or not... all of which just gives them away as being immature.

The HTF is more guilty of that than any other forum I know of....

You talk of "maturity", but yet you posted this thread to berate every single solitary poster on this forum......now THAT is immaturity.

I'll keep my DVDFile forum




------------------
Sean

I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, when he said, "I drank what?"

[1138]

Originally posted by Czar:
I believe the first line of my post stated to "Skip If You Don't Like Critism". I expected flaming but when a person lowers themselves to name calling (hence "troll") or have to prove that they are right and you are wrong (not giving a persion an open mind and opinion) then that only adds to the fact of immaturity. Moderators included!

Maybe you should refresh yourself with the definition of what a troll is.

What criticism? It's all just "Bah! You guys suck in every way." What gets me the most is that you're a long time poster. You obviously just wanted to stir up the pot and get us all in a mad haze. For someone concerned about maturity, you seem to lack a lot of it. Like I said, you give guys like Jerry Gracia a bad name by assosiating yourself with the HTF.

The only reason I'm responding is because of the "Moderators too" part. It's not name calling, it's identifying something for what it is.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored.

[davott]

[quote]Originally posted by Czar:
"I expected flaming but when a person lowers themselves to name calling (hence "troll")"

Welcome to Kiddie Land. I had the misfortune to express my opinion about a certain flic (on Software), and was instantly attacked by the queen of the one-line insult, Saraswati, as an "idiot". 1138's killer word is "troll". Stick around for a while, their followers smell blood, and ad hominems are their forte.

[Disco Stu]

[quote]Originally posted by davott:

Originally posted by Czar:
"I expected flaming but when a person lowers themselves to name calling (hence "troll")"

Welcome to Kiddie Land. I had the misfortune to express my opinion about a certain flic (on Software), and was instantly attacked by the queen of the one-line insult, Saraswati, as an "idiot". 1138's killer word is "troll". Stick around for a while, their followers smell blood, and ad hominems are their forte.

But you deserved it. You started a thread to bash a movie that you obviously hadn't seen (and please don't claim that 1/2 an hour B.S., because we all know, based on your incredibly uninformed statements, that you haven't seen it) just to drum up a pointless argument. Even the people who didn't like the movie thought you were a moron. So perhaps you are a moron. I guess you can add that word to your list.

I guess a lot of those members get restless when they can't have their HTF. I've visited there a few times and been bowled over by the pretension and holier than thou attitude. I've never seen people obsess so long over stupid and minute details. Before taking a look for myself, I thought our members Tyler Durden and David 2001 were nitpickers who worried about dialnorm just a little bit much. Then, after reading some HTF threads, I put their fetishes into perspective. Tyler and David were like people who handcuff each other during sex, compared to the copropheliacs (people who derive pleasure from eating shit) at the HTF.

And please don't argue that the discussions about classic films have more depth at the HTF. This simply isn't true. In three days of looking, I found nothing of value. I've seen more useful information in the user comments at IMDB. As someone mentioned before, I think the age factor has only limited the posters sense of humor, rather than expand their knowledge.

------------------
Arrogance is bliss

[This message has been edited by Disco Stu (edited 07-23-2001).]

[Istagi]

This thread is rapidly spinning out of control.

Criticizm is fine however, criticism usually contains usefull information on how to correct a problem.

Czar your post is more of a whine than criticsm. It is so inapropriate that the HTF, wich you so loveingly reffer to, would never allow your post. It would be immediately removed from their site.

This is not the HTF and we even work to make sure dvdfile never becomes the HTF. We are different and for better or worse we will remain different.

davott. You attacked a film you have not even seen in Software. You posted a message that was a flame target, it gave no reason as to why you disliked Fight Club, only "It Sucked". To whine about the reactions of members is also immature.

More point davott-

Sarswati never called you an idiot. A new member calling him/her self 37 did. Eye one of the moderaters told 37 that it was not apropriate.

You then whent on to personaly attack Bean Bandit.

I would suggest that the two of you look at your own color before calling the kettle black and stop posting flamebait and then crying when you get burned.

------------------
David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[This message has been edited by Istagi (edited 07-23-2001).]

[Templar]

Originally posted by davott:
Welcome to Kiddie Land. I had the misfortune to express my opinion about a certain flic (on Software), and was instantly attacked by the queen of the one-line insult, Saraswati, as an "idiot". 1138's killer word is "troll". Stick around for a while, their followers smell blood, and ad hominems are their forte.

*Yawn* more of the same from you, huh? I don't get along with moderators either, but at least most of my discourse is innocuous. I don't call people immature and I certainly don't decry ad hominems while leveling them in the same breath...

davott
...queen of the one-line insult, Saraswati...

davott
...ad hominems are their forte.

And calling people who's tastes aren't up to your high-falootin' standards "immature" shows a breath-taking, overly inflated sense of self worth. With a point of view so narrow, the only word that can spring to one's mind is...

"immature"

------------------
Yeah, well...sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

[This message has been edited by Templar (edited 07-23-2001).]

[manigrasso]

You know what I find amazing? that I'm not involved in this argument at all.

Hey moderators, I've actually thought that a good shot in the arm for the forum would be a thread-division (ala "Software" or "The Soapbox") where frequently-repeated threads can be re-directed, old opinions can be re-defended, and old wounds can be reopened. This way, other threads might not get as lost in the shuffle, and some of the most memorable threads would be easier to find.

I find the HTF to be more "mature" the same way the dinner-at-home scene in American Beauty seems more "civilized," up to the point where Spacey's arm gets a little twitchy with the side dishes. I'm always waiting for someone at the HTF to "twitch."

Although I agree that it's sometimes a drag to see another "What was your first DVD" thread or "Movies Criterion should release" thread, it doesn't honk me off enough that I'd write such an inflammatory, petty missive. I guess some old guys like to ruin your fun when they can't have theirs.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to try to ban dancing in my hometown. All that gyrating, can't possibly be good for the soul.

manigrasso

P.S.: Does my suggestion that the admins create a place for Frequently Started Threads mean that this thread will now have to go into Feedback?

P.P.S.: I honestly don't remember THAT many people asking what Citizen Kane was. I remember one thread that was started from someone who hadn't seen it. For a forum dedicated to people's love of movies-on-DVD, I can't think of a question more innocuous than someone saying "I never saw it. Do you think I should see it?" Of course, if you're a bitter jackass who jumps on the ignorance on others, then that's just prime fodder.

There is Ignorance that comes from Not Knowing, and there is Ignorance that comes from Not Caring.

P.P.P.S.: czar, for what it's worth, there were a few semi-decent points buried under all your hostility and condescension. I hope you'll feel the same way about my response.

[Taxi]

[sigh]

People, just because somebody starts off their post by saying "I know I'm going to get flamed for this" doesn't mean that you have to flame them.

sara, your label of "troll" for Czar seems a bit reactionary to me. (Especially since Czar has been a member of this forum for quite some time. Trolls tend to have just registered the same day they troll. Just FYI.) Instead, I'd got the impression that he was only bringing up issues that have bugged him/her about the forum, and perhaps this last repeat thread was the last straw. I'm sure that there are things about the forum that bug everybody, and I'm glad that Czar decided to bring it up, rather than just stew about it or worse, simply leave the forum. The way I see it, the only mistake Czar made was not posting this in the Feedback Forum in the first place... And his mention of the HTF seemed pretty insigificant to me, when you look at his post as a whole. I didn't get the impression that he was saying the HTF is better than the DVDFile forum. (If he'd have said that, he'd be wrong. )

In situations like these I always like to quote the movie Contact where Alfre Woodard tells Jody Foster's character "We won't be supressing any ideas here today." You people act as if you can't take a little criticism. Of course, maybe I feel that way because I agree with some of what Czar has said, if perhaps maybe not so much in the way they've said it. (Although I've seen worse "soapbox" posts.)

In the future, I'd like to suggest this policy: if you think a user is trolling on the forum, email a Mod/Admin about it, (Our emails are at the top of the forums that we moderate) and let us make the call. By going for the throat yourself, you're probably only going to make it worse.

------------------
Taxi - DVDFile Forum Administrator
Eleven plus two = Twelve plus one

[This message has been edited by Taxi (edited 07-23-2001).]

[SeanL]

Taxi...that's cool. I don't know if my comments can be considered flaming, but if so then I digress.
Although, I do feel his comments, or at least the format he (Czar) used were meant to raise some hackles.

Anyway....I'm done



------------------
Sean

I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, when he said, "I drank what?"

[Dave Bean]

I always like a little action in this section, but geezz!!!!! People, take a chill pill !!!

Czar was probably just venting a little. We all have our bad days. But...in the meanwhile, everyone just takes the opportunity to unleash. Granted, it's therapeutic and I've pretty much seen the evil side of everyone in this thread....but in the words of some poor bastard who got the shit kicked out of him: "Can't we all just get along"

Personally, I hope we never get as big as HTF. When it gets that big, you lose control, have to smack more people down and turn it into a democracy. I'm much in favor of the dictatorship that the Directors and Producers have here.

Dave Bean

[UserNameUndecided]

I ate too much for dinner, and now I feel sick. Don't know why I'm posting this here.

...carry on.

[SeanL]

I'm much in favor of the dictatorship that the Directors and Producers have here.

ALL HAIL BEAN!!!!!



------------------
Sean

I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, when he said, "I drank what?"

[SolidSnakeASS]

This message board is a little more laid back then other hardcore sites like HTF. So what if we seem 'more mature crowd.' Post there then, I love this boards 'immaturity.' It shows we don't take everything to seriously. To us DVD collection/discussion is fun, to you and HTf it's a job, a science. We want to have fun, so let us!

[BeanBandit]

By going for the throat yourself, you're probably only going to make it worse.

There she goes again. *sigh* That's our Sara!

Got in too late to this one (stupid brother playing Diablo 2) but here I go anyway. Czar, you need to chill bud. So what if someone posts a repeat thread? Most of the people who do are newcomers or people who weren't around when that particular thread was active. I've been guilty of such offenses in the past and I've always apologized for the inconvenience, but you know what, most people around here don't mind at all. Everyone here is very friendly and tolerant. As well, I don't think I've ever seen someone blatantly admit to being a lazy ass and openly refuse to read past threads themselves. I just don't see what the big deal is. We're all friends and we're here here to help each other and talk and have a good time. Why do you need to go and break that appart by getting everyone pissed off? If you like HTF better then go, nobody's asking you to stay. And if it's down, why do you come crawling back to a forum that you hate so much? I just don't understand what your problem is man, get a life.

On a side note, however, we are somewhat guilty of similar board bashing offenses, aren't we Miggy, the Trolling Theif?

------------------
"Are you American?"
"No, I'm Canadian. It's like an American, but without a gun."

[RBB]

Originally posted by Czar:
SOAP BOX MODE...SKIP IF YOU DON'T LIKE CRITICISM.

Maybe you should have thought about that before you posted. One of the most glaring features of maturity is being able to offer insightful criticism, while, at the same time, accept and constructively absorb criticism. You failed at both.

Your post was more one of a generalized character attack on those that use this website, than a criticism of any method of posting or opinions held by users of the board. When criticism was directed back at you, you responded by accusing them of the very thing of which you were guilty in your original post.

Make no mistake, you set the tone for personal attacks and name calling in this thread when you started it. It may be a hard pill to swallow when you first realize that there are people that neither care for nor share your opinions, but that is no reason to try and give your opinions meaning by demeaning others.


[This message has been edited by RBB (edited 07-24-2001).]

[Taxi]

Okay, well, it looks like we're not going to get anything more out of this thread...