The official chroma bug thread

tomdkat · 07-06-2002, 11:47 PM

Ok, this thread is intended to be a repository for info on the "chroma bug".

You can read about it here.

Generally speaking, Panasonic and JVC DVD players use MPEG decoders that do NOT have the bug. The new Denon DVD-1600 does NOT have the bug and most other players do. Interestingly, the old Sony 7000 interlaced player did NOT have the bug, but subsequent players DO have the bug.

I've also heard that Pioneer has come out and OPENLY said they WILL NOT fix this problem in their players. I do NOT know why they feel this way, but this is their position. I've also heard the DV-47a (I think) uses a MPEG decoder that DOES NOT have the chroma bug and the DV-47a *could* be chroma bug-free ONLY if their other chipsets would instruct the MPEG decoder to process the MPEG video just a little differently.

Something else that is interesting is the Panasonic RP56 does NOT have the chroma bug but DOES have ANOTHER "mis-behavior" that is often misconstrued as being the chroma bug. Once I find that info regarding this behavior, I will post it here.

So, if you have any questions or comments about this phenomenon please post them in this thread.

The BIGGEST thing to keep in mind when considering a player with the chroma bug is if this bug will actually BOTHER YOU! On paper this is definitely a problem, but a NUMBER of people WITH chroma bug "infected" DVD players have yet to see the bug in action so just because a player HAS the bug that does NOT mean YOU will be affected by it. Just something to keep in mind.

Lastly, there IS a movement over on AVS Forum where SOMEONE has become a "champion" of eliminating the chroma bug in DVD players.

Peace....

tomdkat · 07-07-2002, 12:28 AM

There are a number of DVDs that people use as " test" DVDs for trying to identify the chroma bug's presence in their player.

Among those titles are Toy Story and Fifth Element. I would like to add He Got Game to this list, especially the scene where "dad" plays "son" in basketball. In that scene "dad" is wearing a red shirt and when they are playing, I saw TONS of combing and streaking on my Pioneer DVL-919 interlaced only player.

Peace......

Alan Smithee · 07-07-2002, 06:19 PM

This problem is VERY obvious on the Playstation 2.

Dom · 07-08-2002, 08:40 AM

Someone with a chroma bug infested player should check out on "For Your Eyes Only" the scene in which Bond and Q use the face recognition computer. This scene is all red and may show plenty of artefacts.
Anyone able to confirm / disprove this?

tomdkat · 07-08-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dom
Someone with a chroma bug infested player should check out on "For Your Eyes Only"

I'll rent this when I can...

Peace....

Rogue · 07-09-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomdkat

Something else that is interesting is the Panasonic RP56 does NOT have the chroma bug but DOES have ANOTHER "mis-behavior" that is often misconstrued as being the chroma bug. Once I find that info regarding this behavior, I will post it here.

Peace....

Yes.

The RP56 has a flicker bug caused by a mistake made with the implementation of the Faroudja chipset. What it does is that in some scenes, very bright reds may appear to flash (flicker). Bear in mind that this is subtle. It is caused by the cross color supression being set too high. That's what the 'Secrets' site says is the cause. To be honest, I am not sure what that means. :p

I own this player and have owned a player with the chroma bug. In my opinion, the flicker bug is by far the lesser of the two evils. For me it is not as noticeable and doesn't rear its ugly head as often as the chroma bug.

Rogue · 07-09-2002, 02:38 PM

I think that the easiest places to see the chroma bug are in computer animated films. It is prominent in Shrek and A Bug's Life, as well as the aforementioned Toy Story movies.

Miggy · 07-10-2002, 01:00 PM

Now, another buddy is starting to seriously look for players. He is planning to get a digital TV so he is going to get progressive scan and wants CD-R/RW/MP3 functionality, so I told him he couldn't go wrong with the player I got - Pan RP62. He is considering that, but also looking at some Sonys he likes. I explained to him about the chroma bug and he wants to avoid that. So, we looked up the helpful link in this thread and looked through the model #s. The model he was looking at isn't listed. Here is the model: Sony DUP-NS700P. Is there info. on if this player is affected?

Miggy, the Thief

tomdkat · 07-10-2002, 02:18 PM

Miggy, the players list in the special report is NOT complete since there are players out SINCE that report was published that DO have the bug.

Here is a list of players with the Sage/Faroudja chipsets that do and do not have the chroma bug. Any of the players listed in this thread NOT marked as having the chroma bug would probably make a good progressive scan DVD player for your friend.

Be sure to read the WHOLE thread as there is some useful info there...

Peace....

Miggy · 07-10-2002, 03:23 PM

Thanks, Tom! I read through the thread. It was really interesting and informative. I didn't see this particular model mentioned. I've just about talked him into getting the RP62 anyway. He's been looking up prices for that model.

Miggy, the Thief

tomdkat · 07-10-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miggy
I didn't see this particular model mentioned.

Outside of being listed for having the Sage/Faroudja chipset, this unit was NOT mentioned but there was OTHER discussion in that thread which I thought was pertinent.

I think the RP82 will be closer to the RP91 and offer video scaling, like the RP91. That unit might be worth considering in addition to the RP62 and/or the Denon DVD-1600...

Peace.....

deepfry · 07-13-2002, 07:55 PM

Miggy:

The DVP-NS700P player from Sony does have the chroma bug. A friend of mine has one and I notice the problem bigtime when we watch Star Trek:TNG episodes at his place.

I'd recommend your coworker get the Panny.

rolisme · 08-03-2002, 04:49 PM

I don't know much about this kind of thing, but on My Nine Inch Nails dvd there is a scene where there are 2 big screens in the back ground, and they go all red then turn to blue. This looks awful on my TV. The red looks all block and keeps moving around. The blue looks similar but it is not as noticeable. Both colors seem to bleed outside of its place, kinda in a changing blurry mess. Is this the bug or is it something else?

I have a toshiba sd 2710 watching it on a crappy 28" RCA televison through composite video. I don't really know, all I know is that this is the worse picture I have ever seen on DVD. The rest of the disc looks good.

PS While watching The Last temptation of Christ, at the beginning I experience a similar effect, but it is not as bad.

Thanks for any help.

roman · 08-04-2002, 06:43 AM

That's probably not the Chroma bug, but a well known problem with composite video called Dot Crawl.

You should really upgrade to at least S-Video (does your tv support it?)

rolisme · 08-05-2002, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roman
That's probably not the Chroma bug, but a well known problem with composite video called Dot Crawl.

You should really upgrade to at least S-Video (does your tv support it?)

Ok thank you, like I said I wasn't sure what it was, all I know is that it sucks.

No I don't have S-Video

. I am currently saving up for a decent TV, so eventually I have something decent

. Hopefully a 16:9 TV

Oscar Antonio M · 08-06-2002, 04:35 AM

Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug, i am beginning to have suspicion.
Because in almost all the DVD´s i have (With the exception of Armageddon (BV),Rushmore (CC) and The Royal Tenenbaums (CC) ).

I have noticed some bleeding in the credits.
Or is it my TV?.

tomdkat · 08-06-2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Antonio M
Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug,

Keep in mind that list is NOT all inclusive. The key is to find out which MPEG decoder your Panasonic has and see if that DECODER is on the list....

Peace.....

Rogue · 09-09-2002, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Antonio M
Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug, i am beginning to have suspicion.
Because in almost all the DVD´s i have (With the exception of Armageddon (BV),Rushmore (CC) and The Royal Tenenbaums (CC) ).

I have noticed some bleeding in the credits.
Or is it my TV?.

I don't think Panasonic players have EVER had the chroma bug. In any case, bleeding in the credits is not the chroma bug. You either have contrast or some other setting set too high.

Have you calibrated your set with AVIA or Video Essentials? Try that and then see if you still have the problem.

tomdkat · 09-09-2002, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogue
I don't think Panasonic players have EVER had the chroma bug.

Depending on the MPEG decoders they used in their players over time, this might be an accurate observation. I think the Sony DVP-S7000, the interlaced player from way back when, did NOT have the bug but subsequent Sony players due since they changed MPEG decoders since the S7000. Just as an example....

Peace.....

Rogue · 09-09-2002, 11:10 PM

You're right. But Panasonic uses Matushita decoders. Matushita = Panasonic ( they are the same company). From what I have read in AVSForum and HomeTheaterSpot, Matushita MPEG decoders have never had the chroma bug.

tomdkat · 09-13-2002, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogue
You're right. But Panasonic uses Matushita decoders. Matushita = Panasonic ( they are the same company).

I'm not disputing that. I guess the *real* question is: has Panasonic *always* used Panasonic MPEG decoders in ALL of their DVD players or have they tried other MPEG decoders as the other manufacturers seem to have done? The newer/current Panasonic players use the Panasonic MPEG decoder but do *ALL* Panasonic players use Panasonic MPEG decoders? The answer to that would best support your stipulation that Panasonic players have never had the chroma bug. I don't know of any online resouce that can be used to list EVERY Panasonic player and which MPEG decoder that was used in that player.

If you know of such a resource, please post a link here...

Peace.....

Cap42086 · 09-13-2002, 07:22 PM

Damn! My player has the chroma bug! It's an older Samsung model whose model number I have no idea. I found it most noticeably on the American Psycho: Unrated Version in just about every scene, specifically in the backrounds.

Rogue · 09-14-2002, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomdkat
I'm not disputing that. I guess the *real* question is: has Panasonic *always* used Panasonic MPEG decoders in ALL of their DVD players or have they tried other MPEG decoders as the other manufacturers seem to have done?

I honestly don't know.

Best guess would be they have always used their own decoders. But my guess is worth :flush:

Frankie · 11-19-2002, 06:25 PM

Boy did I luck out

I bought my Panasonic A-110 back in 1997. It's always worked like a charm for me. In light of the problem with other players it's looks like this ones a keeper.

As far as the type of MPEG decoder goes it would seem silly to buy from someone else if they own the company that makes them. I mean why would Panasonic buy decoders for company X if they make their own in house?

The only exception that I could imagine would be a situation where they had production problems and had to out source.

F

tomdkat · 11-22-2002, 09:13 PM

Here is yet more graphical info on this phenomenon....

Peace.....

christine13 · 11-25-2002, 09:04 PM

I have the toshiba sd1700 and the toshiba sd 2800. I want to know if these two have the chroma bug.

tomdkat · 11-25-2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by christine13
I have the toshiba sd1700 and the toshiba sd 2800. I want to know if these two have the chroma bug.

Well, since there really isn't a "master list" of EVERY DVD player and which MPEG decoder it uses, it's hard to tell. Other Toshiba players HAVE been identified as having the chroma bug, so it does stand to reason that your players have it also.

This is not to say your players therefore "suck" because of this. ALL of my Pioneer players have it and I'm very happy with the video performance I get from them. I still want to do more progressive scan testing with my Pioneer DV-656a, but overall I like its performance.

Peace.....

tomdkat · 12-20-2002, 06:47 PM

Looks like the Chroma Bug report has been updated....

Peace....

07-06-2002, 11:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	The official chroma bug thread Ok, this thread is intended to be a repository for info on the "chroma bug". You can read about it here. Generally speaking, Panasonic and JVC DVD players use MPEG decoders that do NOT have the bug. The new Denon DVD-1600 does NOT have the bug and most other players do. Interestingly, the old Sony 7000 interlaced player did NOT have the bug, but subsequent players DO have the bug. I've also heard that Pioneer has come out and OPENLY said they WILL NOT fix this problem in their players. I do NOT know why they feel this way, but this is their position. I've also heard the DV-47a (I think) uses a MPEG decoder that DOES NOT have the chroma bug and the DV-47a could be chroma bug-free ONLY if their other chipsets would instruct the MPEG decoder to process the MPEG video just a little differently. Something else that is interesting is the Panasonic RP56 does NOT have the chroma bug but DOES have ANOTHER "mis-behavior" that is often misconstrued as being the chroma bug. Once I find that info regarding this behavior, I will post it here. So, if you have any questions or comments about this phenomenon please post them in this thread. The BIGGEST thing to keep in mind when considering a player with the chroma bug is if this bug will actually BOTHER YOU! On paper this is definitely a problem, but a NUMBER of people WITH chroma bug "infected" DVD players have yet to see the bug in action so just because a player HAS the bug that does NOT mean YOU will be affected by it. Just something to keep in mind. Lastly, there IS a movement over on AVS Forum where SOMEONE has become a "champion" of eliminating the chroma bug in DVD players. Peace.... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

07-07-2002, 12:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	DVDs that expose the chroma bug There are a number of DVDs that people use as " test" DVDs for trying to identify the chroma bug's presence in their player. Among those titles are Toy Story and Fifth Element. I would like to add He Got Game to this list, especially the scene where "dad" plays "son" in basketball. In that scene "dad" is wearing a red shirt and when they are playing, I saw TONS of combing and streaking on my Pioneer DVL-919 interlaced only player. Peace...... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

07-08-2002, 08:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dom Administrator Emeritus "I'm having a life now." Join Date: Jun 1998 Location: Elm Street 123	Someone with a chroma bug infested player should check out on "For Your Eyes Only" the scene in which Bond and Q use the face recognition computer. This scene is all red and may show plenty of artefacts. Anyone able to confirm / disprove this? __________________ Unca Dom Insanity grows All them silver discs Yesterday starts tomorrow - tomorrow starts today

07-09-2002, 02:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rogue Actor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Miami,FL USA	I think that the easiest places to see the chroma bug are in computer animated films. It is prominent in Shrek and A Bug's Life, as well as the aforementioned Toy Story movies. __________________ All that is gold does not glitter Not all those who wander are lost...

07-10-2002, 01:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Miggy The Thief Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Matthews, NC, USA	DVD fever is spreading at the office Now, another buddy is starting to seriously look for players. He is planning to get a digital TV so he is going to get progressive scan and wants CD-R/RW/MP3 functionality, so I told him he couldn't go wrong with the player I got - Pan RP62. He is considering that, but also looking at some Sonys he likes. I explained to him about the chroma bug and he wants to avoid that. So, we looked up the helpful link in this thread and looked through the model #s. The model he was looking at isn't listed. Here is the model: Sony DUP-NS700P. Is there info. on if this player is affected? Miggy, the Thief __________________ "Ah, nothing like a large black man wearing a suit jumping in your van to maintain your cover." - Vic Mackey --------------------------------------------- Miggy's Land O' Wonder

07-07-2002, 06:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Alan Smithee Actor Join Date: Jun 2002	This problem is VERY obvious on the Playstation 2.

07-10-2002, 02:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Miggy, the players list in the special report is NOT complete since there are players out SINCE that report was published that DO have the bug. Here is a list of players with the Sage/Faroudja chipsets that do and do not have the chroma bug. Any of the players listed in this thread NOT marked as having the chroma bug would probably make a good progressive scan DVD player for your friend. Be sure to read the WHOLE thread as there is some useful info there... Peace.... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

07-10-2002, 03:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Miggy The Thief Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Matthews, NC, USA	Thanks, Tom! I read through the thread. It was really interesting and informative. I didn't see this particular model mentioned. I've just about talked him into getting the RP62 anyway. He's been looking up prices for that model. Miggy, the Thief __________________ "Ah, nothing like a large black man wearing a suit jumping in your van to maintain your cover." - Vic Mackey --------------------------------------------- Miggy's Land O' Wonder

07-13-2002, 07:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
deepfry Unnecessarily Loquacious Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pickering, Ontario	Miggy: The DVP-NS700P player from Sony does have the chroma bug. A friend of mine has one and I notice the problem bigtime when we watch Star Trek:TNG episodes at his place. I'd recommend your coworker get the Panny.

08-03-2002, 04:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
rolisme Actor Join Date: Feb 2002	I don't know much about this kind of thing, but on My Nine Inch Nails dvd there is a scene where there are 2 big screens in the back ground, and they go all red then turn to blue. This looks awful on my TV. The red looks all block and keeps moving around. The blue looks similar but it is not as noticeable. Both colors seem to bleed outside of its place, kinda in a changing blurry mess. Is this the bug or is it something else? I have a toshiba sd 2710 watching it on a crappy 28" RCA televison through composite video. I don't really know, all I know is that this is the worse picture I have ever seen on DVD. The rest of the disc looks good. PS While watching The Last temptation of Christ, at the beginning I experience a similar effect, but it is not as bad. Thanks for any help. __________________ If you don't like my opinion, don't ask the question. If you never asked the question, just ignore my post. "A gift consists not in what is done or given, but in the intention of the giver or doer." - Seneca 55 BC-39 AD

08-04-2002, 06:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
roman Actor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tel Aviv, Israel	That's probably not the Chroma bug, but a well known problem with composite video called Dot Crawl. You should really upgrade to at least S-Video (does your tv support it?) __________________ Roman "Knowing I loved my DVDs, He furnish'd me from mine own library with volumes that I prize above my dukedom." (That's what Shakespeare would have written today, right?)

08-06-2002, 04:35 AM	#16 (permalink)
Oscar Antonio M Loves his "family" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Heaven & Hell coalition	Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug, i am beginning to have suspicion. Because in almost all the DVD´s i have (With the exception of Armageddon (BV),Rushmore (CC) and The Royal Tenenbaums (CC) ). I have noticed some bleeding in the credits. Or is it my TV?. __________________ DVD's

09-09-2002, 11:10 PM	#20 (permalink)
Rogue Actor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Miami,FL USA	You're right. But Panasonic uses Matushita decoders. Matushita = Panasonic ( they are the same company). From what I have read in AVSForum and HomeTheaterSpot, Matushita MPEG decoders have never had the chroma bug. __________________ All that is gold does not glitter Not all those who wander are lost...

09-13-2002, 07:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
Cap42086 Actor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rhode Island	Damn! My player has the chroma bug! It's an older Samsung model whose model number I have no idea. I found it most noticeably on the American Psycho: Unrated Version in just about every scene, specifically in the backrounds.

11-19-2002, 06:25 PM	#24 (permalink)
Frankie DVDFile HT Award Winner Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Western Canada	Boy did I luck out I bought my Panasonic A-110 back in 1997. It's always worked like a charm for me. In light of the problem with other players it's looks like this ones a keeper. As far as the type of MPEG decoder goes it would seem silly to buy from someone else if they own the company that makes them. I mean why would Panasonic buy decoders for company X if they make their own in house? The only exception that I could imagine would be a situation where they had production problems and had to out source. F __________________ My DVD Collection

11-22-2002, 09:13 PM	#25 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Here is yet more graphical info on this phenomenon.... Peace..... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

11-25-2002, 09:04 PM	#26 (permalink)
christine13 Supporting Actor Join Date: Oct 2002	I have the toshiba sd1700 and the toshiba sd 2800. I want to know if these two have the chroma bug.

12-20-2002, 06:47 PM	#28 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Looks like the Chroma Bug report has been updated.... Peace.... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"