The official chroma bug thread

[tomdkat]

Ok, this thread is intended to be a repository for info on the "chroma bug".

You can read about it here.

Generally speaking, Panasonic and JVC DVD players use MPEG decoders that do NOT have the bug. The new Denon DVD-1600 does NOT have the bug and most other players do. Interestingly, the old Sony 7000 interlaced player did NOT have the bug, but subsequent players DO have the bug.

I've also heard that Pioneer has come out and OPENLY said they WILL NOT fix this problem in their players. I do NOT know why they feel this way, but this is their position. I've also heard the DV-47a (I think) uses a MPEG decoder that DOES NOT have the chroma bug and the DV-47a *could* be chroma bug-free ONLY if their other chipsets would instruct the MPEG decoder to process the MPEG video just a little differently.

Something else that is interesting is the Panasonic RP56 does NOT have the chroma bug but DOES have ANOTHER "mis-behavior" that is often misconstrued as being the chroma bug. Once I find that info regarding this behavior, I will post it here.

So, if you have any questions or comments about this phenomenon please post them in this thread.

The BIGGEST thing to keep in mind when considering a player with the chroma bug is if this bug will actually BOTHER YOU! On paper this is definitely a problem, but a NUMBER of people WITH chroma bug "infected" DVD players have yet to see the bug in action so just because a player HAS the bug that does NOT mean YOU will be affected by it. Just something to keep in mind.

Lastly, there IS a movement over on AVS Forum where SOMEONE has become a "champion" of eliminating the chroma bug in DVD players.


Peace....

[tomdkat]

There are a number of DVDs that people use as " test" DVDs for trying to identify the chroma bug's presence in their player.

Among those titles are Toy Story and Fifth Element. I would like to add He Got Game to this list, especially the scene where "dad" plays "son" in basketball. In that scene "dad" is wearing a red shirt and when they are playing, I saw TONS of combing and streaking on my Pioneer DVL-919 interlaced only player.

Peace......

[Alan Smithee]

This problem is VERY obvious on the Playstation 2.

[Dom]

Someone with a chroma bug infested player should check out on "For Your Eyes Only" the scene in which Bond and Q use the face recognition computer. This scene is all red and may show plenty of artefacts.
Anyone able to confirm / disprove this?

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by Dom
Someone with a chroma bug infested player should check out on "For Your Eyes Only"

I'll rent this when I can...

Peace....

[Rogue]

Originally posted by tomdkat

Something else that is interesting is the Panasonic RP56 does NOT have the chroma bug but DOES have ANOTHER "mis-behavior" that is often misconstrued as being the chroma bug. Once I find that info regarding this behavior, I will post it here.


Peace....

Yes.

The RP56 has a flicker bug caused by a mistake made with the implementation of the Faroudja chipset. What it does is that in some scenes, very bright reds may appear to flash (flicker). Bear in mind that this is subtle. It is caused by the cross color supression being set too high. That's what the 'Secrets' site says is the cause. To be honest, I am not sure what that means. :p

I own this player and have owned a player with the chroma bug. In my opinion, the flicker bug is by far the lesser of the two evils. For me it is not as noticeable and doesn't rear its ugly head as often as the chroma bug.

[Rogue]

I think that the easiest places to see the chroma bug are in computer animated films. It is prominent in Shrek and A Bug's Life, as well as the aforementioned Toy Story movies.

[Miggy]

Now, another buddy is starting to seriously look for players. He is planning to get a digital TV so he is going to get progressive scan and wants CD-R/RW/MP3 functionality, so I told him he couldn't go wrong with the player I got - Pan RP62. He is considering that, but also looking at some Sonys he likes. I explained to him about the chroma bug and he wants to avoid that. So, we looked up the helpful link in this thread and looked through the model #s. The model he was looking at isn't listed. Here is the model: Sony DUP-NS700P. Is there info. on if this player is affected?

Miggy, the Thief

[tomdkat]

Miggy, the players list in the special report is NOT complete since there are players out SINCE that report was published that DO have the bug.

Here is a list of players with the Sage/Faroudja chipsets that do and do not have the chroma bug. Any of the players listed in this thread NOT marked as having the chroma bug would probably make a good progressive scan DVD player for your friend.

Be sure to read the WHOLE thread as there is some useful info there...

Peace....

[Miggy]

Thanks, Tom! I read through the thread. It was really interesting and informative. I didn't see this particular model mentioned. I've just about talked him into getting the RP62 anyway. He's been looking up prices for that model.

Miggy, the Thief

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by Miggy
I didn't see this particular model mentioned.

Outside of being listed for having the Sage/Faroudja chipset, this unit was NOT mentioned but there was OTHER discussion in that thread which I thought was pertinent.

I think the RP82 will be closer to the RP91 and offer video scaling, like the RP91. That unit might be worth considering in addition to the RP62 and/or the Denon DVD-1600...

Peace.....

[deepfry]

Miggy:

The DVP-NS700P player from Sony does have the chroma bug. A friend of mine has one and I notice the problem bigtime when we watch Star Trek:TNG episodes at his place.

I'd recommend your coworker get the Panny.

[rolisme]

I don't know much about this kind of thing, but on My Nine Inch Nails dvd there is a scene where there are 2 big screens in the back ground, and they go all red then turn to blue. This looks awful on my TV. The red looks all block and keeps moving around. The blue looks similar but it is not as noticeable. Both colors seem to bleed outside of its place, kinda in a changing blurry mess. Is this the bug or is it something else?

I have a toshiba sd 2710 watching it on a crappy 28" RCA televison through composite video. I don't really know, all I know is that this is the worse picture I have ever seen on DVD. The rest of the disc looks good.

PS While watching The Last temptation of Christ, at the beginning I experience a similar effect, but it is not as bad.

Thanks for any help.

[roman]

That's probably not the Chroma bug, but a well known problem with composite video called Dot Crawl.

You should really upgrade to at least S-Video (does your tv support it?)

[rolisme]

Originally posted by roman
That's probably not the Chroma bug, but a well known problem with composite video called Dot Crawl.

You should really upgrade to at least S-Video (does your tv support it?)

Ok thank you, like I said I wasn't sure what it was, all I know is that it sucks.

No I don't have S-Video . I am currently saving up for a decent TV, so eventually I have something decent . Hopefully a 16:9 TV

[Oscar Antonio M]

Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug, i am beginning to have suspicion.
Because in almost all the DVD´s i have (With the exception of Armageddon (BV),Rushmore (CC) and The Royal Tenenbaums (CC) ).

I have noticed some bleeding in the credits.
Or is it my TV?.

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by Oscar Antonio M
Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug,

Keep in mind that list is NOT all inclusive. The key is to find out which MPEG decoder your Panasonic has and see if that DECODER is on the list....

Peace.....

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Oscar Antonio M
Though my Panasonic RV-20 is not on the list of the chroma bug, i am beginning to have suspicion.
Because in almost all the DVD´s i have (With the exception of Armageddon (BV),Rushmore (CC) and The Royal Tenenbaums (CC) ).

I have noticed some bleeding in the credits.
Or is it my TV?.

I don't think Panasonic players have EVER had the chroma bug. In any case, bleeding in the credits is not the chroma bug. You either have contrast or some other setting set too high.

Have you calibrated your set with AVIA or Video Essentials? Try that and then see if you still have the problem.

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by Rogue
I don't think Panasonic players have EVER had the chroma bug.

Depending on the MPEG decoders they used in their players over time, this might be an accurate observation. I think the Sony DVP-S7000, the interlaced player from way back when, did NOT have the bug but subsequent Sony players due since they changed MPEG decoders since the S7000. Just as an example....

Peace.....

[Rogue]

You're right. But Panasonic uses Matushita decoders. Matushita = Panasonic ( they are the same company). From what I have read in AVSForum and HomeTheaterSpot, Matushita MPEG decoders have never had the chroma bug.

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by Rogue
You're right. But Panasonic uses Matushita decoders. Matushita = Panasonic ( they are the same company).

I'm not disputing that. I guess the *real* question is: has Panasonic *always* used Panasonic MPEG decoders in ALL of their DVD players or have they tried other MPEG decoders as the other manufacturers seem to have done? The newer/current Panasonic players use the Panasonic MPEG decoder but do *ALL* Panasonic players use Panasonic MPEG decoders? The answer to that would best support your stipulation that Panasonic players have never had the chroma bug. I don't know of any online resouce that can be used to list EVERY Panasonic player and which MPEG decoder that was used in that player.

If you know of such a resource, please post a link here...

Peace.....

[Cap42086]

Damn! My player has the chroma bug! It's an older Samsung model whose model number I have no idea. I found it most noticeably on the American Psycho: Unrated Version in just about every scene, specifically in the backrounds.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by tomdkat
I'm not disputing that. I guess the *real* question is: has Panasonic *always* used Panasonic MPEG decoders in ALL of their DVD players or have they tried other MPEG decoders as the other manufacturers seem to have done?

I honestly don't know.

Best guess would be they have always used their own decoders. But my guess is worth :flush:

[Frankie]

Boy did I luck out I bought my Panasonic A-110 back in 1997. It's always worked like a charm for me. In light of the problem with other players it's looks like this ones a keeper.

As far as the type of MPEG decoder goes it would seem silly to buy from someone else if they own the company that makes them. I mean why would Panasonic buy decoders for company X if they make their own in house?

The only exception that I could imagine would be a situation where they had production problems and had to out source.

F

[tomdkat]

Here is yet more graphical info on this phenomenon....

Peace.....

[christine13]

I have the toshiba sd1700 and the toshiba sd 2800. I want to know if these two have the chroma bug.

[tomdkat]

Originally posted by christine13
I have the toshiba sd1700 and the toshiba sd 2800. I want to know if these two have the chroma bug.

Well, since there really isn't a "master list" of EVERY DVD player and which MPEG decoder it uses, it's hard to tell. Other Toshiba players HAVE been identified as having the chroma bug, so it does stand to reason that your players have it also.

This is not to say your players therefore "suck" because of this. ALL of my Pioneer players have it and I'm very happy with the video performance I get from them. I still want to do more progressive scan testing with my Pioneer DV-656a, but overall I like its performance.

Peace.....

[tomdkat]

Looks like the Chroma Bug report has been updated....

Peace....

[tomdkat]

Ok, look at these images:









and post which image(s) have the chroma bug. If you have NOT read the article that identifies which images have and which don't that's even better.

_Please_ be honest regarding seeing the bug or not as this is a way you can tell if the chroma bug really matters to you....

Personally, I really couldn't see the "bug" at all and in one of the shots above the artifact I DO see wouldn't appear to be the chroma bug to me anyway. I guess I'm just used to it since I've been using Pioneer DVD players for so long....

Peace......

[chlngr1970]

Spoiler (Highlight or Triple Click to Read):

Looking at the larged immage I can't see teh Chroma bug. Looking at the enlarged immages on the right, it's visable, but not on the left.

Where are we supposed to be looking ( which pic? )

j

[1138]

Spoiler (Highlight or Triple Click to Read):

The right ones on the last ones have it and all but the bottom left on Toy Story

How'd I do?

[MrPink]

Spoiler (Highlight or Triple Click to Read):

I'd say the visible bugs are all on the right small pics, except the 2nd Toy Story one.

Ciao,
Oscar

[Iguana Man]

[quote]Originally posted by MrPink


Cool name there Mr. Pink. I just got Reservoir Dogs for Christmas and guess which cover I got ??

[tomdkat]

Ok, according to the updated Chroma Bug article, ALL of the "blown up" images on the right HAVE the bug (which was forced by the MPEG decoder software they used just for this exercise) and the images on the left DO NOT have the bug.

They don't indicate if the "main" image had the bug or not in any of the cases. Of course, the "blown up" images help to identify the problem a lot better and will give people better clues about what to look for if they want to see this on their DVD players at home.

Of course, they can't blow up the image (unless they Zoom a LOT, but I don't know what kind of affect that will have on the image) but they can at least make a better determination of whether the bug is really a problem for them or not given they have a better idea of the kinds of artifacting to look for.

Peace....

[MrPink]

Thanks Iguana Man. I was considering to use MrPurple, or trade with MrWhite, but well, in the end I had to be MrPink!

Ciao,
Oscar

[MtViewGuy88]

Folks,

Your description of the chroma bug may explain this situation.

I play back DVD's currently on a home computer that has a BTC BDV-316C 16X DVD-ROM drive. I've noticed the following depending on these two graphics cards in Windows 98 Second Edition:

1. ATI XPert 2000 Pro AGP with RAGE 128 PRO (6-60) reference display driver--film-based DVD's play fine, but video-based DVD's play back with "jaggedly" lines in parts of the picture.

2. ATI Radeon 7000 (32 MB) AGP with RADEON 7.70 reference display driver--both film- and video-based DVD's play fine with no problems.

The playback program is Cyberlink's PowerDVD XP 4.0 with the Build 2417 (dated 23 January 2003) patch installed and Hardware Acceleration enabled.

Is it possible that the MPEG-2 decoding function on the ATI Rage 128 chipset has a chroma bug problem, and ATI fixed that problem with the Radeon chipsets?

[Darksim]

My Sanyo player has it bad. Just starting a topic about my complaints of the From Dusk Till Dawn image, I just realized what the chroma bug was, and now I know how bad my player has it. A lot of my movies have it, but Dawn has it the worst. It's unbearable. Whenever I get a new player, is it possible to ask someone at the store "will this ______ dvd player have the chroma bug?" how will I know, besides bringing in a test dvd?

[chipmac]

Darksim I feel sorry for you. Now that you've seen it the chroma bug is one of those anamolies that keeps catching your eye every time you watch a movie and nags at you like somebody kicking your seat in the theater. Some people never see it even after it's pointed out to them and they wonder why we complain about it.

For what it's worth there are players from certain manufacturers that use an MPEG decoder that doesn't have the bug. If you stick with these brands when you decide to upgrade your player you'll be safe. The brands I know to be safe are Panasonic, Denon, JVC and Kenwood and there may be others. Pioneer, Toshiba and Sony players always had it but from what I understand the new all in one player from Pioneer the DV-563a that does DVD video, DVD audio and SACD has it diminished to the point of it being barely noticable. if you follow Tomkat's link in the first post of this thread they'll list the lastest players they've tested to tell you about the bug as well as other things that effect PQ.

[morkys]

Does anyone know if the Panasonic DVD F85 or the newer F87 has the Chroma bug? The player is one of the newer all-in-one chip players. I won't be using the progressive output. Does this player have the chroma free mpeg decoding that most Panasonic players have had in the past? Or does the all-in-one chip have the MPEG decoder? Any Chroma bug? I heard it may have the bug but not in the extreme.

thanx for any info

[Sycho]

Originally Posted by morkys

Does anyone know if the Panasonic DVD F85 or the newer F87 has the Chroma bug? The player is one of the newer all-in-one chip players. I won't be using the progressive output. Does this player have the chroma free mpeg decoding that most Panasonic players have had in the past? Or does the all-in-one chip have the MPEG decoder? Any Chroma bug? I heard it may have the bug but not in the extreme.

thanx for any info

http://www.google.ca/search?q=chroma...-8&hl=en&meta=