This whole NTSC/PAL and region thing is SO... - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

snoopygirl · 11-17-2001, 11:54 PM

confusing!

I pretty much understand the NTSC/PAL difference as it relates to TVs. I'm getting confused with the DVD issue though.

I understand my home DVD player (RCA 5225) is only region one and NTSC, and is displayed through my NTSC digital TV (ProScan PS27810)in "TV mode"....that's pretty straightforward.

I regularly play DVDs on my Macintosh Powerbook (and it has driver software that will allow it to be "codefree") but I never really thought of my TFT screen display as "NTSC"... or PAL for that matter. It's just my computer monitor and I think of it in terms of pixels. Yet it will theoretically play any DVD I jam into the player (I've not yet gotten my region 2 PAL disc to test this out yet).

Anyone using their DVD drive in their Mac (Powerbook or otherwise) to play PAL discs? I'm going to give it a shot here when mine arrives.

If it's true that computer monitors don't care about the NTSC/PAL thing, then wouldn't it be that I can set my digital TV to the VGA/SVGA mode, output my powerbook to that and watch my PAL DVDs as "computer output"?

If it doesn't work that way, can someone explain what it is I'm missing? I understood TV in terms of lines, and my computer in terms of pixels but with the 2 mixing together it's getting to be a bit much to wrap my brain around.

Oh - and the region thing. Who in the world made the divisions?? I mean I can understand Region 1 is US/Canada... we're geographically close and both use NTSC. Got that. But Region 2 is just weird! Europe and Japan? One with PAL and one with NTSC? So it's not enough to say it's a Region 2 disk, but you have to spell out what country it came from to know if you can play it or not. Yeeeesh!

***1138*** · 11-17-2001, 11:59 PM

Yes, computer displays are neither NTSC or PAL. They're VGA. So they can in fact play both NTSC or PAL just fine by converting the signal and doing an overlay.

Theorectically, if you can get your computer display up on your TV, then yes, you can use it to view PAL discs just fine. The only disadvantage is having to have your computer on.

As for the region thing: the studios are pretty stupid.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

snoopygirl · 11-18-2001, 12:16 AM

Thanks for that speedy reply! This is *wonderful* news for me since my pockets aren't deep enough to fork out for another DVD player or a PAL TV - and I'm just dying to see the "making of" documentary on Bram Stoker's Dracula... I've been jealous of all you region 2 folks ever since I found out about that.

The Powerbook has a couple of different ways to output itself to a larger monitor (in my case, my digital TV). I love it when all my toys play nice together

tcjennings · 11-21-2001, 10:57 PM

Aren't the discs themselves NTSC/PAL blind? The video is MPEG -- it's the players that have to worry about NTSC and PAL. The Region thing is software-based. All content being equal, the only difference between a R1 and an R2 disc is probably a single bit identifying the region code.

Lightivity · 11-22-2001, 10:36 PM

tcjennings:

Thats right, I almost sure DVD discs dont care about NTSC or PAL, they're just encoded with component pixeldata. Although I think "PAL" and "NTSC" expressed in pixel dimensions are 576x720 resp. 480x720 and the DVD-player then converts the component pixeldata into PAL or NTSC. Im I right? PLease fill me in if im not

tcjennings · 11-23-2001, 01:22 AM

Lightivity: You're right. I once played with an Apex DVD player that for some reason had a PAL/NTSC switch on the remote. Took me a while to figure out what went wrong when I accidentally bumped that button and suddenly got a screwed up picture.

The difference between PAL and NTSC being (1) the horizontal resolution and (2) the frame/refresh rate, which is generated by the player for output independent of the MPEG data encoded on the DVD itself.

***1138*** · 11-23-2001, 07:08 PM

Not quite guys:

Quote:

There are three differences between discs intended for playback on different TV systems: picture size and pixel aspect ratio (720x480 vs. 720x576), display frame rate (29.97 vs. 25), and surround audio options (Dolby Digital vs. MPEG audio). (See 3.4 and 3.6 for details.) Video from film is usually encoded at 24 frames/sec but is preformatted for one of the two display rates. Movies formatted for PAL display are usually sped up by 4% at playback, so the audio must be adjusted accordingly before being encoded. All PAL DVD players can play Dolby Digital audio tracks, but not all NTSC players can play MPEG audio tracks. PAL and SECAM share the same scanning format, so discs are the same for both systems. The only difference is that SECAM players output the color signal in the format required by SECAM TVs. Note that modern TVs in most SECAM countries can also read PAL signals, so you can use a player that only has PAL output. The only case in which you need a player with SECAM output is for older SECAM-only TVs (and you'll probably need a SECAM RF connection, see 3.1).

Link

The MPEG movie is not format independent.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

***chlngr1970*** · 11-23-2001, 09:18 PM

This brings up an interesting question. If you use an HTPC, theoreticly you can have two DVD drives(as there is hardware regon detection on the drive itself) and have a dual regon DVD player. What do you think 1138? Chromy?

j

------------------
Co-Moderator
Software Forum
Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a pyramid, with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?

***1138*** · 11-24-2001, 07:55 AM

My drive isn't set to any region, so I don't even need two.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

***1138*** · 11-24-2001, 07:56 AM

Oh, and using a HTPC will make the whole PAL and NTSC issue moot. Just one more point for the HTPC. Plus, it allows for both without loosing quality. So 2 points.

------------------
1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

11-17-2001, 11:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
snoopygirl Supporting Actor Join Date: Nov 2001	This whole NTSC/PAL and region thing is SO... confusing! I pretty much understand the NTSC/PAL difference as it relates to TVs. I'm getting confused with the DVD issue though. I understand my home DVD player (RCA 5225) is only region one and NTSC, and is displayed through my NTSC digital TV (ProScan PS27810)in "TV mode"....that's pretty straightforward. I regularly play DVDs on my Macintosh Powerbook (and it has driver software that will allow it to be "codefree") but I never really thought of my TFT screen display as "NTSC"... or PAL for that matter. It's just my computer monitor and I think of it in terms of pixels. Yet it will theoretically play any DVD I jam into the player (I've not yet gotten my region 2 PAL disc to test this out yet). Anyone using their DVD drive in their Mac (Powerbook or otherwise) to play PAL discs? I'm going to give it a shot here when mine arrives. If it's true that computer monitors don't care about the NTSC/PAL thing, then wouldn't it be that I can set my digital TV to the VGA/SVGA mode, output my powerbook to that and watch my PAL DVDs as "computer output"? If it doesn't work that way, can someone explain what it is I'm missing? I understood TV in terms of lines, and my computer in terms of pixels but with the 2 mixing together it's getting to be a bit much to wrap my brain around. Oh - and the region thing. Who in the world made the divisions?? I mean I can understand Region 1 is US/Canada... we're geographically close and both use NTSC. Got that. But Region 2 is just weird! Europe and Japan? One with PAL and one with NTSC? So it's not enough to say it's a Region 2 disk, but you have to spell out what country it came from to know if you can play it or not. Yeeeesh!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11-17-2001, 11:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Yes, computer displays are neither NTSC or PAL. They're VGA. So they can in fact play both NTSC or PAL just fine by converting the signal and doing an overlay. Theorectically, if you can get your computer display up on your TV, then yes, you can use it to view PAL discs just fine. The only disadvantage is having to have your computer on. As for the region thing: the studios are pretty stupid. ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

11-18-2001, 12:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
snoopygirl Supporting Actor Join Date: Nov 2001	Thanks for that speedy reply! This is wonderful news for me since my pockets aren't deep enough to fork out for another DVD player or a PAL TV - and I'm just dying to see the "making of" documentary on Bram Stoker's Dracula... I've been jealous of all you region 2 folks ever since I found out about that. The Powerbook has a couple of different ways to output itself to a larger monitor (in my case, my digital TV). I love it when all my toys play nice together

11-21-2001, 10:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
tcjennings Actor Join Date: Dec 2000	Aren't the discs themselves NTSC/PAL blind? The video is MPEG -- it's the players that have to worry about NTSC and PAL. The Region thing is software-based. All content being equal, the only difference between a R1 and an R2 disc is probably a single bit identifying the region code.

11-22-2001, 10:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lightivity Actor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Malmoe, Sweden	tcjennings: Thats right, I almost sure DVD discs dont care about NTSC or PAL, they're just encoded with component pixeldata. Although I think "PAL" and "NTSC" expressed in pixel dimensions are 576x720 resp. 480x720 and the DVD-player then converts the component pixeldata into PAL or NTSC. Im I right? PLease fill me in if im not

11-23-2001, 01:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
tcjennings Actor Join Date: Dec 2000	Lightivity: You're right. I once played with an Apex DVD player that for some reason had a PAL/NTSC switch on the remote. Took me a while to figure out what went wrong when I accidentally bumped that button and suddenly got a screwed up picture. The difference between PAL and NTSC being (1) the horizontal resolution and (2) the frame/refresh rate, which is generated by the player for output independent of the MPEG data encoded on the DVD itself.

11-23-2001, 09:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
*chlngr1970* Producer/Admin Tenacious "OB" Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Spanaway Washington	This brings up an interesting question. If you use an HTPC, theoreticly you can have two DVD drives(as there is hardware regon detection on the drive itself) and have a dual regon DVD player. What do you think 1138? Chromy? j ------------------ Co-Moderator Software Forum Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sun-god robes on a pyramid, with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?

11-24-2001, 07:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	My drive isn't set to any region, so I don't even need two. ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.

11-24-2001, 07:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
*1138* Producer/Admin Careful, or I'll ban myself... Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Oh, and using a HTPC will make the whole PAL and NTSC issue moot. Just one more point for the HTPC. Plus, it allows for both without loosing quality. So 2 points. ------------------ 1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator Someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.