Panasonic RP82 vs. Denon DVD 1600 - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

mrkeeling · 01-05-2003, 07:34 PM

In good old “consumer spirit” I just couldn’t resist Boxing Day sale!
DVD video/audio player was something I was drooling over for quite a while. Panasonic RP82 was really nicely priced ($349 Canadian) so I couldn’t resist. But I was concerned about it’s audio performance (couldn’t find anything serious about it on the Net). Thanks to not being completely “consumer brain-washed” I decided to take home Denon DVD 1600 as well ($849 Canadian), which I definitely couldn’t afford and compare them. Denon is praised for it’s audio performance all over the Net. The reasoning was: if the difference is significant, I’ll return both and wait for some other time to buy decent player. If not, I’ll keep Pany.

For a week I had both of them, switching back and forth and comparing their audio performance. (I didn’t bother with video, because with my old-fashioned 27” tube there is hardly anything that can be reasonably compared).

Lets start with what’s on paper (for the space sake I’ll just point out the differences):
Disc played:
- in addition to what is common for both, Panasonic can play DVD-RAM and WMA/MP3

Video output:
- A same specification for both, except Denon has 2 composite video outs, Pany just one.
- Component video out: Pany states it’s 480p/480I, Denon doesn’t say. Pany calls them Y, Pb and Pr (Y being 1 Vp-p, others 0.7); Denon calls them R,G,B, all being 0.7 Vp-p (all at 75 ohm for both)

Audio output:
- exactly the same for both

Audio performance:
- Exactly the same for both; same frequency response, same S/N ratio, same dynamic range, same total harmonic distortion

Digital audio output:
- Denon: optical only; Panasonic: optical and coaxial

Denon has Phones jack, Pany doesn’t.

Here is how I compared them: I used two DVD-audio discs, Eric Clapton – Reptile and Buena Vista Social Club and one CD – Buena Vista Social Club again (actually this is the only one I have in both versions). First I compared CD with DVD-audio to see how much of the difference there is if any. For CD output I used my CD changer so that base for the comparison stays the same. In order to compare apples to apples I used high-resolution stereo track from DVD-audio disc. I had two friends over as well to try to make it less subjective. Well, let me tell you, the difference between CD and DVD-a is clearly noticeable. Everything improves with DVD-a. You have more detail, wider sound stage, better-defined sound, more depth. Maybe the best explanation of the difference would be if you imagine seeing the world without prescription glasses that you need and than seeing the same world WITH the glasses.
As far as two DVD-a players are concerned, we all agreed that level of improvement is the same no matter which DVD-a player we listened to.
Than we compared surround tracks from both DVD-a discs on both DVD-a players. I must say that this was not that simple, because it took some time to disconnect one and connect the other one. It was harder to compare the sound this way than just switching from one source to the other on the receiver. But for what I wanted to know it was good enough.
I must say it was really hard to notice any difference! One of my friends couldn’t tell the difference at all. The other either couldn’t tell the difference or preferred the sound of Pany, but couldn’t quite explain it. I thought that Denon has a little bit more detail in high end, but it sounded harsher at the same time, so it was not necessarily better. In any case the difference, if any, was INSIGNIFICANT! Definitely not worth $500.
The truth is my equipment is not state of the art (you can check it in My Home Theater forum). More revealing equipment may show more and significant difference. But I have what I have and I definitely can not justify spending $500 more even if I could afford it.

So, I’m keeping Panasonic! Now I have to concentrate my effort to get a TV that will take advantage of Pany’s progressive out.

Hope you guys find all this interesting and informative.

tomdkat · 01-06-2003, 09:12 PM

Thanks for posting your findings. I believe the Denon DVD-1600 is based on the Panasonic DVD-RP82, with "better" video processing components. I could be mistaken.....

Peace....

mrkeeling · 01-06-2003, 11:07 PM

You may be very right Tom.
Disk tray looks exactly the same on both players, bottom panel is almost the same and setup menu is identical.

But all my excitement about keeping Panasonic is quickly disappearing after learning about new release announcements in both DVD-a and SACD worlds. Looks like SACD is gaining on momentum with definitely more exciting releases due this year. I am more and more thinking of returning this one as well and waiting for the right moment (price) to buy a hybrid player that can play both DVD-a and SACD (can’t afford to keep this one and then buy a new player any time soon).

Anyhow I have till Jan 25 to decide.

tomdkat · 01-06-2003, 11:50 PM

You could always buy a Pioneer Eite DV-45a, which plays both DVD-A and SACD and then send it to me and I can connect it for you....

Peace....

mrkeeling · 01-07-2003, 12:37 AM

You know what Tom, that’s the player I’ve been reading about all afternoon!

But I am afraid it’ll be out of my (financial) reach right now, unless I win on lottery.
If that happens I’ll send one to you as well.

tomdkat · 01-07-2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrkeeling
But I am afraid it’ll be out of my (financial) reach right now, unless I win on lottery.
If that happens I’ll send one to you as well.

Fair enough.....

Peace......

Cap42086 · 01-07-2003, 05:39 PM

So the new Panasonic models that are the "updated" version (so to speak) of the RP-82 will handle SACD and DVD-Audio at the same time?

tomdkat · 01-07-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap42086
So the new Panasonic models that are the "updated" version (so to speak) of the RP-82 will handle SACD and DVD-Audio at the same time?

I don't know if any new/upcoming Panasonic DVD players will paly both DVD-A and SACD. The Denon DVD-1600 plays DVD-A/DVD-V and not SACD. Pioneer Elite DV-45a and DV-47a(i) play DVD-A/DVD-V/SACD as well as a number of other players based on the Pioneer "kit", like the Marantz 8300 and a new Yamaha unit that uses different video processing components even though the player uses a Pioneer transport.

I just don't know what Panasonic has planned for it's new players.....

Peace.....

jonathan_little · 01-07-2003, 08:12 PM

I really hope that we can get some sort of standard allowing a digital connection from the player to the receiver for SACD and DVD-A. Only allowing analog connections is a very lame attempt to stop piracy, in my opinion.

Pioneer already has a high end receiver and player that can do this via something called "i.Link." MSRP $4500 for a receiver and a $1200 player are prices that are just slightly out of my grasp, though.

tomdkat · 01-07-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jonathan_little
Pioneer already has a high end receiver and player that can do this via something called "i.Link." MSRP $4500 for a receiver and a $1200 player are prices that are just slightly out of my grasp, though.

Denon also makes a receiver and DVD player with a similar digital audio connection, but Pioneer's digital connection uses a standard IEEE 1394 (Firewire) interface so Pioneer's VSX-49TXi receiver will be able to interface with ANY DVD player that has a Firewire output.

Peace.....

sub780lime · 01-07-2003, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrkeeling

But I am afraid it’ll be out of my (financial) reach right now, unless I win on lottery.
If that happens I’ll send one to you as well.

can i have one too

mrkeeling · 01-07-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

can i have one too

Sure you can, as long as I hit the jackpot and it is BIG! (so you and Tom better send your good vibes towards me and I am buying the ticket on Friday).

Cap42086 · 01-08-2003, 02:44 AM

Hey Keeling, can I get one of those, too?

Quote:

Originally posted by tomdkat
I just don't know what Panasonic has planned for it's new players.....

The RP-82 is an excellent player already, so I just can't even wait to see how good the new version of it is going to be.

mrkeeling · 01-12-2003, 08:08 PM

Sorry guys, but my tickets didn’t win.

Maybe next time, I’ll keep on playing.

On the other hand, if my financial construction survives, I may and up being a happy owner of Pioneer DV45A by the end of this week!

(am I excited or what!)

Cap42086 · 01-12-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrkeeling
On the other hand, if my financial construction survives, I may and up being a happy owner of Pioneer DV45A by the end of this week! (am I excited or what!)

Lucky bastard.

01-05-2003, 07:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
mrkeeling Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 49°15'56"N/123°8'4"W	Panasonic RP82 vs. Denon DVD 1600 In good old “consumer spirit” I just couldn’t resist Boxing Day sale! DVD video/audio player was something I was drooling over for quite a while. Panasonic RP82 was really nicely priced ($349 Canadian) so I couldn’t resist. But I was concerned about it’s audio performance (couldn’t find anything serious about it on the Net). Thanks to not being completely “consumer brain-washed” I decided to take home Denon DVD 1600 as well ($849 Canadian), which I definitely couldn’t afford and compare them. Denon is praised for it’s audio performance all over the Net. The reasoning was: if the difference is significant, I’ll return both and wait for some other time to buy decent player. If not, I’ll keep Pany. For a week I had both of them, switching back and forth and comparing their audio performance. (I didn’t bother with video, because with my old-fashioned 27” tube there is hardly anything that can be reasonably compared). Lets start with what’s on paper (for the space sake I’ll just point out the differences): Disc played: - in addition to what is common for both, Panasonic can play DVD-RAM and WMA/MP3 Video output: - A same specification for both, except Denon has 2 composite video outs, Pany just one. - Component video out: Pany states it’s 480p/480I, Denon doesn’t say. Pany calls them Y, Pb and Pr (Y being 1 Vp-p, others 0.7); Denon calls them R,G,B, all being 0.7 Vp-p (all at 75 ohm for both) Audio output: - exactly the same for both Audio performance: - Exactly the same for both; same frequency response, same S/N ratio, same dynamic range, same total harmonic distortion Digital audio output: - Denon: optical only; Panasonic: optical and coaxial Denon has Phones jack, Pany doesn’t. Here is how I compared them: I used two DVD-audio discs, Eric Clapton – Reptile and Buena Vista Social Club and one CD – Buena Vista Social Club again (actually this is the only one I have in both versions). First I compared CD with DVD-audio to see how much of the difference there is if any. For CD output I used my CD changer so that base for the comparison stays the same. In order to compare apples to apples I used high-resolution stereo track from DVD-audio disc. I had two friends over as well to try to make it less subjective. Well, let me tell you, the difference between CD and DVD-a is clearly noticeable. Everything improves with DVD-a. You have more detail, wider sound stage, better-defined sound, more depth. Maybe the best explanation of the difference would be if you imagine seeing the world without prescription glasses that you need and than seeing the same world WITH the glasses. As far as two DVD-a players are concerned, we all agreed that level of improvement is the same no matter which DVD-a player we listened to. Than we compared surround tracks from both DVD-a discs on both DVD-a players. I must say that this was not that simple, because it took some time to disconnect one and connect the other one. It was harder to compare the sound this way than just switching from one source to the other on the receiver. But for what I wanted to know it was good enough. I must say it was really hard to notice any difference! One of my friends couldn’t tell the difference at all. The other either couldn’t tell the difference or preferred the sound of Pany, but couldn’t quite explain it. I thought that Denon has a little bit more detail in high end, but it sounded harsher at the same time, so it was not necessarily better. In any case the difference, if any, was INSIGNIFICANT! Definitely not worth $500. The truth is my equipment is not state of the art (you can check it in My Home Theater forum). More revealing equipment may show more and significant difference. But I have what I have and I definitely can not justify spending $500 more even if I could afford it. So, I’m keeping Panasonic! Now I have to concentrate my effort to get a TV that will take advantage of Pany’s progressive out. Hope you guys find all this interesting and informative. __________________ My DVD, DVD-a and SACD Collection HT:Pioneer Elite DV45A--Outlaw ICBM--Arcam DiVa AVR200--Arcam DiVa P85/3--Arcam Diva P85--Infinity IL30 fronts, C25 centre, OWS-1 surrounds, IL100 sub--Ultralink speaker wire--Outlaw interconnects--Panamax MAX4400 surge suppressor--home made power cables--Pany TH-42PWD8UK

01-06-2003, 09:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	Thanks for posting your findings. I believe the Denon DVD-1600 is based on the Panasonic DVD-RP82, with "better" video processing components. I could be mistaken..... Peace.... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

01-06-2003, 11:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
mrkeeling Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 49°15'56"N/123°8'4"W	You may be very right Tom. Disk tray looks exactly the same on both players, bottom panel is almost the same and setup menu is identical. But all my excitement about keeping Panasonic is quickly disappearing after learning about new release announcements in both DVD-a and SACD worlds. Looks like SACD is gaining on momentum with definitely more exciting releases due this year. I am more and more thinking of returning this one as well and waiting for the right moment (price) to buy a hybrid player that can play both DVD-a and SACD (can’t afford to keep this one and then buy a new player any time soon). Anyhow I have till Jan 25 to decide. __________________ My DVD, DVD-a and SACD Collection HT:Pioneer Elite DV45A--Outlaw ICBM--Arcam DiVa AVR200--Arcam DiVa P85/3--Arcam Diva P85--Infinity IL30 fronts, C25 centre, OWS-1 surrounds, IL100 sub--Ultralink speaker wire--Outlaw interconnects--Panamax MAX4400 surge suppressor--home made power cables--Pany TH-42PWD8UK

01-06-2003, 11:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
tomdkat Official Forum Warmonger "Dial Tone" Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hayward, CA, USA	You could always buy a Pioneer Eite DV-45a, which plays both DVD-A and SACD and then send it to me and I can connect it for you.... Peace.... __________________ My DVD Aficionado List "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge!"

01-07-2003, 12:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
mrkeeling Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 49°15'56"N/123°8'4"W	You know what Tom, that’s the player I’ve been reading about all afternoon! But I am afraid it’ll be out of my (financial) reach right now, unless I win on lottery. If that happens I’ll send one to you as well. __________________ My DVD, DVD-a and SACD Collection HT:Pioneer Elite DV45A--Outlaw ICBM--Arcam DiVa AVR200--Arcam DiVa P85/3--Arcam Diva P85--Infinity IL30 fronts, C25 centre, OWS-1 surrounds, IL100 sub--Ultralink speaker wire--Outlaw interconnects--Panamax MAX4400 surge suppressor--home made power cables--Pany TH-42PWD8UK

01-07-2003, 05:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cap42086 Actor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rhode Island	So the new Panasonic models that are the "updated" version (so to speak) of the RP-82 will handle SACD and DVD-Audio at the same time?

01-07-2003, 08:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
jonathan_little Actor Join Date: Jan 2002	I really hope that we can get some sort of standard allowing a digital connection from the player to the receiver for SACD and DVD-A. Only allowing analog connections is a very lame attempt to stop piracy, in my opinion. Pioneer already has a high end receiver and player that can do this via something called "i.Link." MSRP $4500 for a receiver and a $1200 player are prices that are just slightly out of my grasp, though.

01-12-2003, 08:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
mrkeeling Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 49°15'56"N/123°8'4"W	Sorry guys, but my tickets didn’t win. Maybe next time, I’ll keep on playing. On the other hand, if my financial construction survives, I may and up being a happy owner of Pioneer DV45A by the end of this week! (am I excited or what!) __________________ My DVD, DVD-a and SACD Collection HT:Pioneer Elite DV45A--Outlaw ICBM--Arcam DiVa AVR200--Arcam DiVa P85/3--Arcam Diva P85--Infinity IL30 fronts, C25 centre, OWS-1 surrounds, IL100 sub--Ultralink speaker wire--Outlaw interconnects--Panamax MAX4400 surge suppressor--home made power cables--Pany TH-42PWD8UK

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