DVD Player recommendations: Discuss DVD player recommendations here

[Titleist]

Iguana, hmm, good question, personally I'd sway more towards the Denon 2200 or 1910, however it depends more towards what you intend to use the dvd player for ultimately. That's a good sized screen, and I'd be willing to bet you'll start seeing HDMI switchers showing up very soon. I believe 2 or 3 were announced at CEDIA.

So with that in mind, you can't go wrong with the Denon 2200. But if you want really great video, Denon has that 2910 out, which is their upscaling version of the 2200. The 1910 also does upscaling, but lacks the ability to do SACD and all the rest like it's bigger brothers. I know the 2910 lists for 650 msrp, but I'd be willing to bet you could find it under 600 or even less than that. The guy who I buy my equipment from, an installer gets them at price, and they're definately around the 500 mark.

However if you want to keep it cheap, I'd also recommend the Pioneer 563a, which is a great bang for the buck. Video quality wise I don't think you can go wrong with the Denon.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

Iguana, hmm, good question, personally I'd sway more towards the Denon 2200 or 1910, however it depends more towards what you intend to use the dvd player for ultimately. That's a good sized screen, and I'd be willing to bet you'll start seeing HDMI switchers showing up very soon. I believe 2 or 3 were announced at CEDIA.

So with that in mind, you can't go wrong with the Denon 2200. But if you want really great video, Denon has that 2910 out, which is their upscaling version of the 2200. The 1910 also does upscaling, but lacks the ability to do SACD and all the rest like it's bigger brothers. I know the 2910 lists for 650 msrp, but I'd be willing to bet you could find it under 600 or even less than that. The guy who I buy my equipment from, an installer gets them at price, and they're definately around the 500 mark.

However if you want to keep it cheap, I'd also recommend the Pioneer 563a, which is a great bang for the buck. Video quality wise I don't think you can go wrong with the Denon.

Thanks...couple of clarifications:

a) SACD/DVDA are not in the picture for the living room.

b) What about the dvi-->hdmi cables? Does that allow for some kinda switcher that isn't out yet...or do I have this whole thing f-ed up?

c) The TV upconverts (I think) everything to 720P. Does that 'effect' the player purchase?

Thanks....keep it coming folks!

[Titleist]

If DVDA/SACD aren't in the picture, that makes things simpler. As for DVI to HDMI cables, it's no problem whatsoever, as HDMI was always built to be backwards compatible, so if you find a dvi switcher or HDMI switcher, then you're good to go.

The upconversion of the tv really won't effect playback, if you set the player to output to 1080i the tv will be downscaling things, so either will work.

With that in mind, at the present time, I'd say the 1910 would be a great buy, 250 at crutchfield, and it's got DVI output. I know pioneer is coming out with some lower cost upscaling players, but not for at least another few months. So with price in mind, I'd go 1910, or if you can swing the cost, the 2910. But the 2200 is also a superb player, as it's Video DACs are really high grade, same ones in my 2900, and that player absolutely blows me away.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I got my new living room TV (52" Widescreen JVC with HDMI input)

What model JVC is it? Having the model # allows people to scope out specs, etc.

I hope to hear some good suggestions from both the Pio camp (Tom ) and the Denon camp (Pliss/Title )

Depending on the model of JVC, you might want to check out the Xenith DVB-318, which can upconvert to 720p/1080i over component video connections. Otherwise, at the $500 price point see if you can find a Denon DVD-2200 or DVD-2900. Those are universal players (DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/SACD) and should offer excellent video performance for you.

Do you care about MP3, WMA, of JPEG support?

Peace...

[Titleist]

He's made it sound like DVDA/SACD isn't a concern, however with mp3/WMA/JPEG you won't find fault with the Denon 1910, which plays all 3 of those, but just lacks the DVDA/SACD formats.

2900 might be overkill since I think the strength of this particular players is for audio, which is why I've also turned it into my main CD player as well. But the 1910 is what I'd vote for personally.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

If DVDA/SACD aren't in the picture, that makes things simpler. As for DVI to HDMI cables, it's no problem whatsoever, as HDMI was always built to be backwards compatible, so if you find a dvi switcher or HDMI switcher, then you're good to go.

So they make the switchers? Cool.

Originally Posted by Titleist

The upconversion of the tv really won't effect playback, if you set the player to output to 1080i the tv will be downscaling things, so either will work.

What about analog--digital--analog--digital stuff? You know, converting crap left and right before it hits the screen?

Originally Posted by Titleist

But the 2200 is also a superb player, as it's Video DACs are really high grade, same ones in my 2900, and that player absolutely blows me away.

This will work with my TV right?

------------------------------------
Now on to Tom!
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JVC 52Z575 (sorry, I'm a noob! - my bad! )

Originally Posted by Tomdkat

Depending on the model of JVC, you might want to check out the Xenith DVB-318, which can upconvert to 720p/1080i over component video connections. Otherwise, at the $500 price point see if you can find a Denon DVD-2200 or DVD-2900. Those are universal players (DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/SACD) and should offer excellent video performance for you.

What I worry about is all the conversion going on...it ups, it downs, it ups...know what I mean? Or are you saying I can do it via component and use the HDMI via the HD Sat receiver? Forget universal players...

All the MP3, MPA, etc....don't worry about it....not an issue.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Titleist

He's made it sound like DVDA/SACD isn't a concern,

He didn't post his requirements for this new player so I can't assume he isn't interested in a Universal player or not.

2900 might be overkill since I think the strength of this particular players is for audio, which is why I've also turned it into my main CD player as well. But the 1910 is what I'd vote for personally.

I've seen the 2900 in action and it produces a beautiful picture! Chromy has one connected to his DWIN DLP front projector and there are stills of it in action in his thread in "Your Home Theater" I believe.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

What about analog--digital--analog--digital stuff? You know, converting crap left and right before it hits the screen?

If the "native" resolution of the TV is 720p, it will de-interlace any interlaced video it's fed. If you feed it an analog 720p video image, it might convert it to digital before displaying it depending on how D-ILA worls. If this is a "fixed pixel" display (which I think it is), the conversions involved would work like this:

digital (in DVD player) --> analog (output via component) --> analong (input into the TV) --> digital (if the TV needs to do this before display)

With most HD CRT-based TVs, a de-interlaced analog video signal is passed to the display guns untouched since it's already de-interlaced, unless the TV is configured to display a higher res picture, like 540p, 720p, or 1080i, in which case the TV will convert the analog video to digital, upconvert to desired resolution, then convert to analog and display it.

Depending on your eyes, you might not see any artifacts introduced by the digital --> analog conversions going on. This isn't anything to "worry" about but definitely something to be aware of.

Peace...

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

He didn't post his requirements for this new player so I can't assume he isn't interested in a Universal player or not.

Peace...

I think our posts were hitting this thread at the same time...it actually made me wonder what the hell was going on

See : a) SACD/DVDA are not in the picture for the living room.

(see what happens when all these replys come flying in at once!) COOL.

EDITED: SEE what I mean! Arghhhhh. I'll back off for tonight. Must eat dinner anyways...See you dudes tomorrow.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I think our posts were hitting this thread at the same time...it actually made me wonder what the hell was going on

See : a) SACD/DVDA are not in the picture for the living room.

(see what happens when all these replys come flying in at once!)

Yep, I missed his post completely as my browser positioned me farther down the page when I read the "latest" post.

Sorry about that, Titleist.

Peace...

[Titleist]

haha, too much information! I was going to post something along the lines of "Hey he did mention he didn't want SACD/DVDA" but he already corrected that. So I wasn't making assumptions! ;-)

As for my statement on the 2900, there's no debate it's a beautiful image produced by it's video dacs, I should know, I own one. However what we were talking about is that the 2200 and 2900 share the same video components, so the main difference is higher Audio Dacs on the 2900. And since Iguana mentioned that SACD/DVDA wasn't a big issue, then that lead me to the statement that it might be overkill for the price, compared to the 2200 that is.

But you're right, the 2900 is a stand up great player, I've seen Chromy's pics, and I agree. Again I've got the 2900 so I'm already sold on it.

Tomdkat, you hit the nail on the head describing the analog/digital conversions necessary, thanks.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Titleist

As for my statement on the 2900, there's no debate it's a beautiful image produced by it's video dacs, I should know, I own one. However what we were talking about is that the 2200 and 2900 share the same video components, so the main difference is higher Audio Dacs on the 2900. And since Iguana mentioned that SACD/DVDA wasn't a big issue, then that lead me to the statement that it might be overkill for the price, compared to the 2200 that is.

Great idea to save him some money. Maybe we can get him to send his savings to us.

Peace....

[Titleist]

hah, I don't mind saving people some money. And I like your idea of how to spend that leftover money.

I bought my 2900 because I wanted to get the most out of my DVDA's and SACD's, which was really predicated on great DACs for the audio side of things. Also to be honest I just wanted a dvd player that didn't have a layer change, didn't have combing errors, and didn't choke on dvds like my Sony 685V did. I think it was also helped along by the 3805 I bought last july.

[KSC2-303]

No one seems to be able to recommend a good DVD player for me.

I'm currently stuck with a Malata DVP-520 which is a nice player, but I'm sure would get it's butt kicked PQ-wise by a Farudja-based upsampling DVD player with my new Mitsubishi WD-52525 DLP HDTV. Plus the power can't be turned off/on via remote, a thing I've hated since the day I unwrapped it.

Anyway, here are the traits I am looking for:

- Roughly $300 price cap (No $2000 Denons)
- Region free capable (Via a hack, service menu, firmware update, out of the box, etc. Anything that isn't cracking it open and soldering)
- PAL to NTSC conversion
- 720p upsampling, best PQ I can get for the money (I assume it would be using a Farudja chip)
- HDMI output preferred, DVI required
- Remote power on/off
- Not required, but I'd like full software control. The old Malata 996 had it where you could go to a menu even if the disc wanted to lock itself, for example.

Anyway, thanks for the help!

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by KSC2-303

Anyway, here are the traits I am looking for:

- Roughly $300 price cap (No $2000 Denons)
- Region free capable (Via a hack, service menu, firmware update, out of the box, etc. Anything that isn't cracking it open and soldering)
- PAL to NTSC conversion
- 720p upsampling, best PQ I can get for the money (I assume it would be using a Farudja chip)
- HDMI output preferred, DVI required
- Remote power on/off
- Not required, but I'd like full software control. The old Malata 996 had it where you could go to a menu even if the disc wanted to lock itself, for example.

The Denon DVD-1910 might be a good start:

Originally Posted by Denon DVD-1910 specs

Progressive Scan/Scaling DVD Player • Powered by the new DCDi by Faroudja FLI-2301 Decoding Engine • Dual, discrete 54 MHz, 10 bit Video D/A Conversion system (1) each for Progressive and Interlaced outputs) • (1) DVI-D (HDCP) Output with selectable 480p/720p/1080i output • (1) each - Component Video, Composite and "S" outputs • Variable Black Level (Setup): 0 and 7.5 IRE • Passes below-black (PLUGE) on progressive and interlace outputs • 2X DVD read speed; 4X CD/CD-R/CD-RW read speed; with 2MB drive buffer memory • MP3 and Windows Media Audio (WMA 9) Playback • Plays Audio/Video CDs; DVD +/-R/RW(conditional); Audio CD-R; Audio CD-RW; Decoders for MP3 (128kbps or greater recommended) and WMA-9 (64 ~ 160kbps) CD-R/RW & DVD +/-R/RW discs • JPEG photo file viewer, Kodak Picture and Fujicolor CD compatible • Anamorphic Scaling for 4:3/16:9 Sets • Zoom Control • Burr-Brown PCM-1756, 24 bit, 192 kHz Audio DACs • Serial Remote In/Out ports • Dimensions: 17.1"w x 3.2"h x 9.7"d • SRP $269 • Click on the tech note icon to download the Users Manual in Spanish

Link to PDF file

You can research how much effort is involved in getting the player modded for multi-region support.

More DVD-1910 reading.

Peace...

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Great idea to save him some money. Maybe we can get him to send his savings to us.

Peace....

Your a funny man...hehehe!

Well hows this thing strike you guys?

[chlngr1970]

Originally Posted by KSC2-303

Anyway, here are the traits I am looking for:

- Roughly $300 price cap (No $2000 Denons)
- Region free capable (Via a hack, service menu, firmware update, out of the box, etc. Anything that isn't cracking it open and soldering)
- PAL to NTSC conversion
- 720p upsampling, best PQ I can get for the money (I assume it would be using a Farudja chip)
- HDMI output preferred, DVI required
- Remote power on/off
- Not required, but I'd like full software control. The old Malata 996 had it where you could go to a menu even if the disc wanted to lock itself, for example.

I don't believe the Denon is hackable, nor is it capable of the NTSC/PAL conversion. What KSC2-303 is asking for is a pretty tall order, and I doubt you will find any reputable manufactures that offer such a device.

j

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by chlngr1970

I don't believe the Denon is hackable, nor is it capable of the NTSC/PAL conversion. What KSC2-303 is asking for is a pretty tall order, and I doubt you will find any reputable manufactures that offer such a device.

Well, I tried...

Peace...

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Well, I tried...

Peace...

Don't fret son......After talking to a bud, the TV would be best served using a dvd player that does a straight 720P sig.....now, with THAT in mind.....The Pio or Den is looking good.

(meaning, no up or down sampling from the player via component..720p straight)

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

(meaning, no up or down sampling from the player via component..720p straight)

HDMI switch box.

Peace...

[Titleist]

Cool, with that in mind I think for the present time, working within your budget I'd opt for the 1910 or 2910. Iguana, in fact I'm going t to talk with my dealer (that sounds so bad) and see what his prices are, I might do a small group buy if that drastically effects the prices.

However, for what you've asked I think the 1910 is a standup player in terms of picture quality and DTS/DD output. If you really want the higher quality audio dacs, spring for the 2910. Otherwise I think this is the best idea given your requirements. I would also suggest the Pioneer 59AVi, but it's just too expensive for the situation.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Titleist

Cool, with that in mind I think for the present time, working within your budget I'd opt for the 1910 or 2910. Iguana, in fact I'm going t to talk with my dealer (that sounds so bad) and see what his prices are, I might do a small group buy if that drastically effects the prices.

Do the Denon players output 720p over component video or only over DVI? I believe the DVD-5900 outputs 720p/1080i over DVI and 480i/p over component video.

The Zenith DVB-318 outputs 720p/1080i over component video so that might be a good player to check out.

Peace..

[Titleist]

Since it seems I'm getting weird posting issues, I just ran over to the Apple G5 I'm sometimes on, okay.

Here's what I think, Tom, given the fact that you just showed off a really nice HDMI switcher, get the Denon 1910 and using a DVI to HDMI cable, share the dvd player and your sat box (which has HDMI as well) and run those into the 1 available port on your tv. That way you're not having to deal with Component video, and can make a completely digital pass through on both the sat box and dvd player, and not have to worry about loss of signal.

On my pioneer plasma I have two HDMI ports, one of which I use, which is the Dish Network 811 which I have outputing through the DVI port on the back, which is then converted to HDMI. Eventually when the 5910 or 3910 come out and drop to an acceptable price for little 'ol me, I plan on routing it through the other available HDMI port.

But iguana, I think this is the best solution, especially given that you want to keep it as a native 720p signal, plus you avoid converting it to an analog signal via component.

[Titleist]

Tom, posting is sorta working now, so ignore my "test". Anyways, the denon's output 720p and 1080i ONLY over DVI or HDMI, in fact that's why they have a 216mhz video dac, which is double what most players have, because it's actually 2 dacs on the 2910 and 3910. Meaning it's 2x 108mhz video dacs, one handles 480i/p, the other handles the upscaled 1080i and 720p, but it can't do it via component.

So you're absolutely right about how the 5900 outputs. Personally I would opt for keeping it as a complete digital signal.

[Iguana Man]

So let me get this straight..... :p

Go with the Denon 1910 and that cool switch box that Tom listed. Run both my sat receiver and dvd player into it, then out to the HDMI 'in' on the TV. Correct?

If correct....you dudes have answered my questions and will be rewarded with....well, let me have a few beers and think on it.

The only issue is that switcher (I think) is "coming soon" and I don't know how long I can wait!

EDITED: I think I may get that Momitsu player for the HT room and pair it up with the Z2 PJ.....anyone know anything about that player? The Momitsu, not the Z2.

[Titleist]

Wait, so are you opting for the Momitsu over the Denon?

Personally I'd say get the denon 1910, run it through component until that switcher is released, I just called the manufacturers and they said within 3-4 weeks it'd be out, so I'd say go component for the time being on the 1910 till the switcher is ready to be shipped, for absolute best PQ the route I think that's best is the 1910 plus the HDMI switch, that way you're not compromising on quality just because you have one HDMI in on the tv.

Glad we could help, btw.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

Wait, so are you opting for the Momitsu over the Denon?

Personally I'd say get the denon 1910, run it through component until that switcher is released, I just called the manufacturers and they said within 3-4 weeks it'd be out, so I'd say go component for the time being on the 1910 till the switcher is ready to be shipped, for absolute best PQ the route I think that's best is the 1910 plus the HDMI switch, that way you're not compromising on quality just because you have one HDMI in on the tv.

Glad we could help, btw.

Don't kill me now...but I think you missunderstood. The JVC 52" DILA is in the Living room. The Momitsu (may) go in the dedicated HT room. I'm talking two seperate rooms buddy.

I just got done hooking up my old Pio Elite DV-05 to the JVC in the living room. It's via a crappy svid cable. It looks spectacular! I now question how much better a player with HDMI is going to look over component if I go that route and save the bucks on a switcher!

See, I'm am now thinking 720p straight thru may not be an advantage. Afterall, the player is gonna upconvert from 480 to 720 anyway. Am I making any sense? I guess I'm asking: how much more improvement will HDMI on DVD's look over component? The living room is more for HDTV rather than movies anyways.....that's (dvds) what the Z2 and possibly the tweakable Momitsu will do in the dedicated HT room.

If I make no sense...forgive me...it's Friday night and yes...I've already ingested a few cold ones!

[Titleist]

No problem, I wasn't meaning to sound snappy. I forgot that this was for a seperate system, that wasn't your main HT setup.

Honestly if component to your eye looks good, then go with that. As tom and I discussed in a few other threads the advantage of upscaling works great on paper, but in practical application you may not even notice the difference. If that's the situation, then opt for a good player with component output, the Denon 1910 is still going to give you superb video output over component, but don't think that you HAVE to use HDMI. Personally you'll get more mileage out of that connection if you're using a device that outputs a truely native 720p or 1080i source image, not one that's been upscaled.

Simply put, from using the Denon 5900 which is hands down one of the best dvd players in my opinion, and comparing it to the 2900 I use on my main setup, I'd say the upscaling is really only a 5-7 percent quality increase, and I'm really only giving it that big of a percentage because for the price it has to look better, right? lol, probably not.

So don't beat yourself up over having to use HDMI, or dvi for that matter. As I keep saying, dvds won't magically look like true HD signals, no matter how clever the components are.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

No problem, I wasn't meaning to sound snappy. I forgot that this was for a seperate system, that wasn't your main HT setup.

Honestly if component to your eye looks good, then go with that. As tom and I discussed in a few other threads the advantage of upscaling works great on paper, but in practical application you may not even notice the difference. If that's the situation, then opt for a good player with component output, the Denon 1910 is still going to give you superb video output over component, but don't think that you HAVE to use HDMI. Personally you'll get more mileage out of that connection if you're using a device that outputs a truely native 720p or 1080i source image, not one that's been upscaled.

Simply put, from using the Denon 5900 which is hands down one of the best dvd players in my opinion, and comparing it to the 2900 I use on my main setup, I'd say the upscaling is really only a 5-7 percent quality increase, and I'm really only giving it that big of a percentage because for the price it has to look better, right? lol, probably not.

So don't beat yourself up over having to use HDMI, or dvi for that matter. As I keep saying, dvds won't magically look like true HD signals, no matter how clever the components are.

Understood...and don't think you were 'snappy'.....my thanks again to both of you. The 1910 looks like the living room player for now. But I ain't even watching component yet in the living room - it's a crap svid. That was my point...even that looked 'spectacular'....so component will probably be my choice over the HDMI for dvd's. HD via SAT will definately go thru the HDMI port on the TV....FOOTBALL baby!

Tom, don't worry man.....I need a new receiver for the living room and guess what brand I'm gonna get? Pioneer baby! (stay tuned for that thread!)

Thanks again guys!

(can I go watch Hellboy now? :p )

[Titleist]

lol, go enjoy the movie. I'm off to see Shaun of the Dead, being a Home Theater geek tires me out.

But yeah, you'll be very happy with the output of the Denon's. I love my 2900, I'm interested to see how the reviews of the 1910 come out, but early word is that it's a great player for the price point. But like you said, if S-Video looks good to you, you'll be absolutely happy with component output from the denon. For HD sat stuff, you've got the right hookup as HDMI is the best connection. For dvds at this point I think it's just spliting hairs, either way you'll be very happy.

It's pretty great when you can just get the equipment all hooked up and just enjoy a system for the stuff playing on it rather than the stuff it's being played on. So good luck, glad our opinions could help you solve that problem.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

If that's the situation, then opt for a good player with component output, the Denon 1910 is still going to give you superb video output over component, but don't think that you HAVE to use HDMI. Personally you'll get more mileage out of that connection if you're using a device that outputs a truely native 720p or 1080i source image, not one that's been upscaled.

Sorry.....last question; The 1910 over component will look good while upconverting to 720p from 480? Right? And the 2900 will also up from 480 to 720 and may or may not look better via component as well? The 2900 is better for audio which isnt a major concern for me in the living room....This is what I've gathered so far.

Do I finally have this straight?

[Titleist]

No you don't, but that's why I'm here, lol. The denon's do not upconvert via component, only the HDMI/DVI connections do up converting. Component will be 480i/p.

Now you mentioned the 2900. Keep in mind there are two units out there, the 2900 and 2910.

The 2910 is:
*The previous 2200 with the HDMI upscaling capabilities, this is brand new, and was JUST released, it's supposed to be a great player, as the 2200 was considered to be a superb player as well.

The 2900 is:
*what chromy and I use as our players, it is a superb player whose dacs were built for excellent video reproduction as well as audio reproduction. It does component video output but not scaling.

Edit: do keep this in mind, the quality of chipset in the 2910 is a step up from the 1910, I don't know how this will affect normal component output. The 2910 uses Faroudja's flagship de-interlacer, whereas I think the 1910 is the step down. However that's not to say the 1910 is inferior to the 2910 in component video picture quality.

Both are superb players, I wanted my dvd player to serve tripple duty as movie player, DVDA/SACD (of which I have 3 dozen of those discs), and a CD transport, so the 2900 with it's higher audio dacs is what I went with. You can't go wrong on either. One thing to note is that you can find the 2900 used for about 550 dollars, while the 2910's MSRP is 650 (it was just released). I got mine from audiogon.com, for 560 shipped, and the guy kept it in pristine condition. I love the 2900, so either the 2910, 2900, or 1910 would be great for component. But I'd go with the 1910 purely because it's got a great set of video dacs and it's pretty absurdly cheap for a denon dvd player.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

No you don't, but that's why I'm here, lol. The denon's do not upconvert via component, only the HDMI/DVI connections do up converting. Component will be 480i/p.

Now you mentioned the 2900. Keep in mind there are two units out there, the 2900 and 2910.

The 2910 is:
*The previous 2200 with the HDMI upscaling capabilities, this is brand new, and was JUST released, it's supposed to be a great player, as the 2200 was considered to be a superb player as well.

The 2900 is:
*what chromy and I use as our players, it is a superb player whose dacs were built for excellent video reproduction as well as audio reproduction. It does component video output but not scaling.

Edit: do keep this in mind, the quality of chipset in the 2910 is a step up from the 1910, I don't know how this will affect normal component output. The 2910 uses Faroudja's flagship de-interlacer, whereas I think the 1910 is the step down. However that's not to say the 1910 is inferior to the 2910 in component video picture quality.

Both are superb players, I wanted my dvd player to serve tripple duty as movie player, DVDA/SACD (of which I have 3 dozen of those discs), and a CD transport, so the 2900 with it's higher audio dacs is what I went with. You can't go wrong on either. One thing to note is that you can find the 2900 used for about 550 dollars, while the 2910's MSRP is 650 (it was just released). I got mine from audiogon.com, for 560 shipped, and the guy kept it in pristine condition. I love the 2900, so either the 2910, 2900, or 1910 would be great for component. But I'd go with the 1910 purely because it's got a great set of video dacs and it's pretty absurdly cheap for a denon dvd player.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.....now the news I wish I didn't have to report.

What is all this Macroblocking crap I'm reading about over on AVS with most of the Denon players? I'm getting a tad concerned. Can you share your thoughts (Chromy too) on this?

Sorry, but I really don't like what I've read thus far.

[Titleist]

Okay, here's the thing to understand about Macroblocking, it's not really the dvd players fault alone. It happens when a combination of things present themselves, it's basically a combination of the Faroudja chipset when upscaling, the way the tv handles that upscaled information, and the dvd image that is being upscaled itself.

I know this was a common issue with owners of the 5900, and I think I clearly stated, as well as being backed by tom on this, that when you upscale you essentially introduce artifacts into the upscaled information because the chipset is generating image information that wasn't there in the first place. Is there macroblocking in the 1910? I can't tell for sure, on my 43 inch plasma using the 5900, which I need to officially return now (damnit), the macroblocking isn't an issue to my eyes. I can sort of see it in 1080i mode, not at all in 720p.

Is denon to blame if there is macroblocking? yes and no, it's really faroudja's fault, so here's my stance on it, since it's a fault of the math that is behind the de-interlacer it's not too absurd to believe that this could be patched with a firmware release. In fact denon's track record has been very open and honest when fixing issues with products, e.g their response to openly working to fix chroma bugs in mitsubishi chipsets.

I just talked to a friend an hour ago, who purchased a 1910 and 3910, one for his main HT room, and the other for his wife's office, and he's absolutely visually anal retentive, he should be as he's ISF certified, and at 720p on his Runco projector (main HT room) and Runco Plasma, was unable to find any of the macroblocking. So call it what you will, I can't confirm the problem IS there, but keep in mind it takes a combination of a few variables for macro blocking to show up, and even if it does you MAY not notice it. I know my Denon 2900 can't handle alternating progressive flags, which shows up in Monster's Inc, did I notice the problem with my eyes? only after viewing it 8 times, and from 4 inches away, did I care? not really at all.

Iguana, I know you mentioned this was going with component output, the word on the street is that this macroblocking would NOT be present in 480p output. However if you're just going with 480p with component may I suggest the Denon 2200? I know these can be had on ecost for 230 shipped, and are absolutely wonderful players, and offer all of the features of a universal player, plus they have ZERO layer change, something the 1910 doesn't get away with from what I hear.

Hope this helps. Don't get bummed by the rantings of a few people, I think you've narrowed it down to a few great players, after hearing the concerns I don't think you could go wrong with the 1910, but I'm now leaning towards the 2200. Good luck.

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by Titleist

Okay, here's the thing to understand about Macroblocking, it's not really the dvd players fault alone. It happens when a combination of things present themselves, it's basically a combination of the Faroudja chipset when upscaling, the way the tv handles that upscaled information, and the dvd image that is being upscaled itself.

I know this was a common issue with owners of the 5900, and I think I clearly stated, as well as being backed by tom on this, that when you upscale you essentially introduce artifacts into the upscaled information because the chipset is generating image information that wasn't there in the first place. Is there macroblocking in the 1910? I can't tell for sure, on my 43 inch plasma using the 5900, which I need to officially return now (damnit), the macroblocking isn't an issue to my eyes. I can sort of see it in 1080i mode, not at all in 720p.

Is denon to blame if there is macroblocking? yes and no, it's really faroudja's fault, so here's my stance on it, since it's a fault of the math that is behind the de-interlacer it's not too absurd to believe that this could be patched with a firmware release. In fact denon's track record has been very open and honest when fixing issues with products, e.g their response to openly working to fix chroma bugs in mitsubishi chipsets.

I just talked to a friend an hour ago, who purchased a 1910 and 3910, one for his main HT room, and the other for his wife's office, and he's absolutely visually anal retentive, he should be as he's ISF certified, and at 720p on his Runco projector (main HT room) and Runco Plasma, was unable to find any of the macroblocking. So call it what you will, I can't confirm the problem IS there, but keep in mind it takes a combination of a few variables for macro blocking to show up, and even if it does you MAY not notice it. I know my Denon 2900 can't handle alternating progressive flags, which shows up in Monster's Inc, did I notice the problem with my eyes? only after viewing it 8 times, and from 4 inches away, did I care? not really at all.

Iguana, I know you mentioned this was going with component output, the word on the street is that this macroblocking would NOT be present in 480p output. However if you're just going with 480p with component may I suggest the Denon 2200? I know these can be had on ecost for 230 shipped, and are absolutely wonderful players, and offer all of the features of a universal player, plus they have ZERO layer change, something the 1910 doesn't get away with from what I hear.

Hope this helps. Don't get bummed by the rantings of a few people, I think you've narrowed it down to a few great players, after hearing the concerns I don't think you could go wrong with the 1910, but I'm now leaning towards the 2200. Good luck.

Nicely said...thanks man. I'll reconsider the Denon. Had to point out what I read though, so I hope you understand. Everything is cool......

[tomdkat]

From what I've read about macroblocking in those various threads on AVS Forum along with the screenshots I've seen there, it sounds like it's more related to MPEG decoding than de-interlacing, primarily, where de-interlacing can contribute to the effect seen.

I believe I've seen this with my old Sony DVP-NS715P progressive scan DVD player that I no longer own. I saw this most prevalently in Star Wars Episode II in the scene where Sen Palpatine was talking with the Jedis in that room with the red walls. When viewing this scene on the Sony, the walls were "dancing" with patterns I believe to be macroblocking (blotches were "dancing" on the walls). This was NOT present when viewing the same scene using my Pioneer DV-656a or Panasonic DVD-XP30 players. All three players were connected to a Toshiba 57HX81 using Monster Video 3 (I think) component video cables and all three were outputting 480p which was upconverted by the TV to 540p. The Denon DVD-3800 was the first Denon DVD player (I believe) to cause the macroblocking issue to become the issue it is today, given the prevalence of it in that player.

Personally, I don't think it's anything to really be worried about, like the chroma upsampling error. Ig, if you like your Pioneer Elite DV-05 stick with it for now but do try to switch from the S-Video connection to using the component video connection to see if the video quality improves any. If your TV has great upconversion and de-interlacing ability (based on your like or dislike of the image), then you don't really "need" to swap the DVD player out. The Zenith DVB-318 I mentioned outputs 720p/1080i over component video AND offers Faroudja de-interlacing AND is readily available at BestBuy so you could try it out and return it if you didn't like it. It retails for $260 at BestBuy.

That would probably be the best course of action for you to take right now. If you like 720p/1080i over component video, then you can check out the Denon's and consider the HDMI switch option, etc. In other words, the DVD player you use to see what the upconversion talk is all about does not have to be the DVD player you decide to "keep".

Good luck and keep us posted!

Peace...

[Surf Monkey]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

The Zenith DVB-318 I mentioned outputs 720p/1080i over component video AND offers Faroudja de-interlacing AND is readily available at BestBuy so you could try it out and return it if you didn't like it. It retails for $260 at BestBuy.

You know anything about the HDMI output on that box Tom? I have a Samsung DLP and I've been looking for a good player to hook up to the DVI connector. (If you discussed this above just point me to the post. I haven't been keeping up with the thread.)

[Titleist]

Surf Monkey, yeah check the last page and a half, tom and I discussed upscaling dvd players at great lengths, such as the Denon 1910, 2910, and 5900. About there pro's and cons in relation to Iguana's search for a dvd player. Give that a look.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Surf Monkey

You know anything about the HDMI output on that box Tom? I have a Samsung DLP and I've been looking for a good player to hook up to the DVI connector. (If you discussed this above just point me to the post. I haven't been keeping up with the thread.)

The Zenith has a DVI output and not a HDMI output. If you're looking for a "long term" upconverting DVD player and have some money to invest, check out the Denon units Titleist mentioned (the x910 units). If you just want to see how an upconverted signal looks via DVI, the Zenith might be a cost effective experiment since you can easily return it and then consider allocating more money to a more permanent unit.

The Zenith has been very popular on AVS Forum and I'm sure it's got its own set of quirks like every other player.

Peace...

[Prancer]

I noticed that the Zenith doesn't have a Dolby Digital decoder but does have DTS. Does that make a big difference when considering a player?

I am confused on this, if a player doesn't have a decoder but I have a Receiver that decodes DTS and Dolby Digital, would the sound be decoded?