Subwoofer Question

[snipsnapsappy]

I was wondering what subwoofer you guys would recommend for me. My system is currently all Axiom and should be for a long time. I am looking to spend between $500 and $700 on a new sub. I would prefer to get the Axiom sub because it matches everything else and I love purchasing products from them. It is a 12" 200 watt sub. And it costs between $580 and $620. The reviews for some of Axiom's subs have not been as extremely favorable as they are with the rest of their speaker line, but I am sure it still does well. Most reviewers say that the sub is better for music than for Movies. Supposedly it does not reach quite as low as subs by some other manufacturers. I have been looking at subs from SVS, Velodyne and HSU but they are all black and do not match my area ashtetically. Which is more important to me than whether or not it goes eeexxxxxxxtremely deep. Just looking for some advice.
Thanks
P.S. here is a photo of the Axiom sub.

[Fightguard]

my pick would be the Adire Dharman
http://www.adireaudio.com/home_audio...es/dharman.htm

but something tells me that you're going to end up with the axiom anyway

[snipsnapsappy]

Her is the same sub with a black grill on it. I would get it with a tan grill that makes it all look like one unit. To see how much better the tan grills look see my most recent posts in my home theater forum.

[snipsnapsappy]

Never heard of Adire Audio. What do you think puts this ahead of HSU or SVS?
Ugly subs-HSU

[snipsnapsappy]

Another ugly sub-SVS

[snipsnapsappy]

SVS-ugly

[snipsnapsappy]

Velodyne- Not pretty, but not as bad.

[Fightguard]

well, I've never actually heard the HSU or SVS so I can't comment on that. You've never heard of Adire but maybe you've heard of the Shiva driver it uses? which I'm a big fan of. It's very popular with the DIY/sub kit crowd.

[Iguana Man]

While I'm obviously a bit biased, I'd go with the Velodyne (I own the SPL-1200). One thing to consider is your placement of the sub. If you end up having it corner placed, and behind a speaker or whatever, then perhaps your choice of finish is less important? And if that's the case, you can then choose the sub based on it's performance in your room.

Just a thought.

[PunkMunkey]

SVS may be ugly, but they'll give you some of the best bass you've ever heard or felt...no shit.

I have not heard the Axiom sub but have also seen many less than favorable review on it, while conversely I have heard the SVS (PC-Plus cylinder though, supposedly the PB1-ISD box has the same performance) and have no problem saying it's one of the best I've ever heard (on par with subs twice it's price)...and it gets rave reviews from about 95% of the people who've been exposed to it...

Forget looks and go for performance...

P.S. I've been eyeing those Axioms but have heard they can be a bit bright and thin sounding...any truth to that?...How would you describe thier sound?

[chlngr1970]

I don't quite understand how any of those subs are ugly. OTOH, I have heard a pair of SVS subs in action and all I can say is

DAMN!

That is just about the best investment that Chromy has EVER made in his HT

j

[snipsnapsappy]

Almost all of the stuff I have is in a maple color and not black. So that is why I want a light colored sub.

I do not know anything about what "thin" or "bright" mean. I am guessing bright means that the highs are too high? If that is the case, I would have to disagree. The sound is very realistic to me. A guitar sounds the way a guitar sounds when played in front of you live, especially with a good DVD Audio. I have never experienced sound quite like the sound produced from other manufacturers' speakers. And the way Axiom makes their products just makes sense to me. They really do research into their products. Look at the VP150 Center channel, I have never seen a center with two tweeters on the outside and the mids in between. This creates a larger sweetspot and does other things well I have heard. But I am not an expert. I just know for sure my set up sounds really good when it comes to highs and mids. Also, look at their surrounds, they shoot out sound in four directions. Most reviewers say they are the best surround speakers they have ever heard. I have 3 QS8's and they really fill up my room with sound. I can not jear any holes anywhere.

[SilentBob]

Originally posted by snipsnapsappy
Velodyne- Not pretty, but not as bad.

They are an amazing Sub. I have the CHT-8 and it kicks soe major ass in the LFE department. But reviewers say to stay away from the CHT-10 as it doesn't have the same response time as the CHT-8. But if you can afford it go for the CHT-12 Sub. You wont be disappointed.

[snipsnapsappy]

So I found the Velodyne CHT-12 for $370. This seems to be a pretty good deal versus the $600 SVS 12" box sub, or $550 cylinder 12" sub or the $500 HSU 10" models and a much better deal than the Axiom 12" model. Axiom actually looks overpriced for once. I still wish the aeshtetics were nicer on alll of the models besides the Axiom. I wonder if SVS or HSU do custom finish work.

[snipsnapsappy]

How important is power wattage?

The Axiom is 200 Watts,
the Velodyne is 170 Watts,
the SVS are 320 Watts,
and the HSU is 150 Watts.

Is this a good indicator of performance?

If so, this would explain why the SVS subs are so popular.

would the SVS one be that much more powerful sounding?

Also, I am currently going to be moving out of my current apartment and into a house, so I do not care about the bass being too loud. I am interested in the quality of sound more than how low it can go though. I want tight, clean bass for my DVD Audios as well as being able to really feel when Sauron blows up at the beginning of FOTR or when that propeller ship comes in at the beginning of AOTC. I want a balance between the two without really giving up much.

I do like the price of the velodyne, I could almost get two of them for the price of the Axiom.

Decision, decisions

[chlngr1970]

I go back to what I said earlier. I haven't heard a ub that competes with the SVS's at Chromy's place in ANY price range. Chromy did his a little bit different than most. He used 2 SV Subwoofers (25-31 CS, Custom tuned to 22 HZ, 12"woofer)
Alesis EQ (dual 31 band 1/3 octave), dbx compressor, Peavey PV4c Power Amp (210 WPCx2) and it flat out ROCKS! Just ask Taxi, he heard them

j

[Chromy]

Originally posted by snipsnapsappy
How important is power wattage?

The Axiom is 200 Watts,
the Velodyne is 170 Watts,
the SVS are 320 Watts,
and the HSU is 150 Watts.

Is this a good indicator of performance?

How important? Important, but only one brush stroke in a complicated picture.

Wattage works in mysterous ways... If you were to assume that the sensitivity of the HSU and the SVS were the same (so, with one watt of power, you get... say, 85 db of volume at 40hz) the SVS would only play ~3db louder... just barely a noticable difference in the volume. For each +3 db, the wattage doubles.

So, you can see that sensitivity is very important too. A subwoofer with a sensitivity of 80db with a 1000 watt amp would have a maximum theoretical output of about 110db, whereas you could get the same performance from subwoofer with a 120W amp that had a sensitivity of 90db.

In room response (14'x9'x8') with dual SVS's gives me a measured 118db in room at 20hz. I have the passive ones, so I'm using a different (lower powered) amplifier and pushing (as j stated) 210 watts into each one.

So... wattage and sensitivity combined are a good indication of how loud a subwoofer will play. The total potential output of a sub system contributes to it's cleanliness at lower volumes. If your system averages 75db over the course of a movie, if your speaker system is capable of pushing out 120db of sound it will generally be cleaner than a setup that can only push out 85db of sound being pushed at the same volumes. The SVS units combine power with sensitivity (afforded them by the bigger enclosures).

Originally posted by snipsnapsappy
If so, this would explain why the SVS subs are so popular.

would the SVS one be that much more powerful sounding?

Also, I am currently going to be moving out of my current apartment and into a house, so I do not care about the bass being too loud. I am interested in the quality of sound more than how low it can go though. I want tight, clean bass for my DVD Audios as well as being able to really feel when Sauron blows up at the beginning of FOTR or when that propeller ship comes in at the beginning of AOTC. I want a balance between the two without really giving up much.

I think that the SVS subs are popular because they are very linear. What goes in, comes out... you have to push them very hard to get them to audibly compress the sound. Also because of their sensitivity they are fairly tight sounding. I listen to a lot of Jazz music, and the SV's suit my tastes just perfectly... no slop at all. However, they also shake the floor, walls, pictures downstairs, etc... while at the same time slamming you in the chest (if that is what the program material calls for).

I won't go out and say that the subs that I have are the BEST subwoofers out there... just that they are the best (by far) in their price range.

If looks are important to you, no one can fault you for your personal tastes... I don't think that the SV's are particularly becomming. Everything is a compromise. Part of the reason that the SV's are able to reach such performance levels is that they are designed to perform... performance takes bigger boxes. However, big boxes are not pretty and they take up a lot of floor space. It comes down to how much performance you are willing to sacrifice for looks (or how much dough you are willing to lay down to get the performance in a smaller box). There are no real ways to cheat in subwoofer design... You have power, size, and extension... each is a tradeoff.

Chromy

[snipsnapsappy]

Thanks for the info guys, I have alwasys wanted an SVS sub, but I still am not sure. My apartment is very bright, with lost of light colors. My speakers are all finished in maple. A big black box or cylinder would stick out like a sore thumb. I also have the girlfriend to worry about. My current "weak" sub is black and I hate the way it stares at me from the corner of the room. It looks at me and says , "hey, I suck, and I am ugly too".

I am definitely partial to getting an SVS, but I will have to decide when I move if there is somewhere I can hide it.

Chromy, do you know if there are any audible differences between the Cylinder and the Box subs?

Also, why did you choose the passive subs with separate amp instead of the powered ones?

[SilentBob]

Well i will just say if you can get that Velodyne CHT-12 for $370 then go for it. I think they only come in black but you could easily paint it (though i would never do so) But the subs are great and you should be able to test one outa t a near by Best Buy i think (i got mine at Future Shop in Canada but are part fo Best Buy now)

[mighty mint]

Originally posted by snipsnapsappy
How important is power wattage?

The Axiom is 200 Watts,
the Velodyne is 170 Watts,
the SVS are 320 Watts,
and the HSU is 150 Watts.

Is this a good indicator of performance?

I think that it depends if that is "x" amount of watts RMS. That is the true number to watch for. And the higher the better. Often times salespeople try to suck you in by giving you the higher watts number which (I believe) refers to a listening level but the RMS (I think) refers to the clean power. Anyone else know what I am trying to talk ignorantly about?