7.1 DTS/NEO:6/Pro-Logic II THX Certified System for $650...

[Blackbelt Jones]

Hi Gang,

I know some of you'all are serious high-end home theater gurus and will probably chuckle at this... but, for us low-enders (or people that live in cities and have NO SPACE), this is pretty interesting:

http://www.americas.creative.com/pro...p?campid=20146

Creative DDTS-100 Decoder
The DDTS-100 is a digital decoder that incorporates all of the latest technologies, including Dolby® Digital EX, DTS®-ES, Dolby® Pro Logic® II (movie and music modes), and Neo:6 (cinema and music modes). It comes with a staggering 7 (seven!) selectable inputs, including three digital optical inputs, to support every piece of audio gear in the living room. It has a wireless remote and dual headphone jacks. And it will connect to 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 speaker systems.

Estimated Retail Price: $149.99 [Available soon from Creative.Com and select partners]

GigaWorks™ S750
Engineered with ground-breaking technologies, the GigaWorks™ S750 is a 7.1 speaker system that represents the new "state of the art" in audio performance. And with a chest-thumping 210 watt subwoofer, and the amazing detail delivered by titanium supertweeters in each two-way satellite speaker, the GigaWorks S750 will give you a more intense and dramatic experience with games, movies and music than you've ever imagined.

Key Features:
7.1 Speaker System (with CMSS® upmix to work with 5.1 & 6.1 sound cards)
Two-way speakers with titanium supertweeters
700 Watts Total RMS Power, including 210W RMS subwoofer
THX® Certified
Audio Control Pod with M-PORT™ for streaming audio from compatible NOMAD® MuVo® MP3 players
Wireless remote

Estimated Retail Price: $499.99 [Available soon from Creative.Com and select partners]

I will be upgrading to this. I, for one, can testify to how well multimedia speakers work in a pure home-theater DVD environment. I currently run a Creative Labs DTS decoder from my JVC DVD player and into Creative Inspire speakers that are properly positioned and mounted at ear level on 3' stands. (http://www.americas.creative.com/pro...maincategory=3). For what it's worth, my modest little setup obliterates ALL of my friends home-theater-in-a-box setups... so much so that two of my buddies have scrapped them for solutions similar to mine. To my ears, my current Creative setup offers dynamic, punchy, and very clean sound... even at extremly high volume. And it only cost me $245.

I also run a pair of THX certified powered Mackie monitors (http://www.mackie.com/products/hr624/index.html) in my in-home broadcast design studio, so I am a bit of an audio snob in my professional life... but what can I tell you... Creative's affordable multimedia setups have won me over in the living room! And now a $150 7.1 decoder and $500 7.1 speakers? Pinch me hard! Heck, even Mrs. Jones is excited about this one!

[tomdkat]

This does sound like a great alternative to a HTiB system, especially at that price point. What is the frequency response of the speakers?

Peace...

[Blackbelt Jones]

What is the frequency response of the speakers?

So far they (Creative) are a bit skimpy on the details. I assume they will flesh their site out more as they ready it for shipping. I have e-mailed them for specs, so we shall see. If I hear anything, I will be sure to post it.

[Jerm]

A friend of mine was talking about 7.1 systems, and I don't get it.
Why? Most discs are 5.1, and then there are some DTS releases that are 6.1 ...so what will a 7.1 system accomplish?

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Jerm

Why? Most discs are 5.1, and then there are some DTS releases that are 6.1 ...so what will a 7.1 system accomplish?

Robert George I believe put it best,

6.1 is an audio format. 7.1 is a speaker configuration

As more and more DVDs come out with dts-es discrete or DD EX audio tracks, having a 7.1 speaker configuration can provide a more "enveloping" sound since you're completely surrounded with speakers.

Peace...

[Blackbelt Jones]

I am not going to pretend to be an expert on this, but I think it gives you two discreet channels of audio at the rear of your seating. For example: run the THX optimizer on Star Wars I or II and you will note that it sends discreet information to two separate rear channels in addition to the other 5.1 channels (three front, two side, one sub). The theory being that it gives you a more immersive experience as you are now literally surrounded by 360 degrees of discreet audio. Only a handful of movies support this presently (they would need to be ES or EX encoded)... but this unit will up convert any 5.1 signal to 7.1 via the DTS neo:6 technology. To those who have heard it (I have a business acquaintance who installs high end systems for corporate offices and another who does it for trade shows), they claim the extra channel (and in this case, two channels) does indeed impact your listening experience considerably. I have yet to hear it myself, but I can't wait to!


EDIT: Tom posts quick like the Ninja and gets one off while I was huntin' and peckin'! Sorry for any redundancy...

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

As more and more DVDs come out with dts-es discrete or DD EX audio tracks, having a 7.1 speaker configuration can provide a more "enveloping" sound since you're completely surrounded with speakers.

Okay, that makes sense. But since my living room is so small...well my wife just would not want any more speakers in our home. Maybe some day, when I have a room dedicated to the "home theater", I could get away with it, but not now.

[OnWelfare]

something i can afford! can't wait....

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones

but I think it gives you two discreet hannels of audio at the rear of your seating.

The 6th channel in a dts-es discrete audio track is discrete. In a DD EX audio track,it's "matrixed" into the left and right surrounds and can be "extracted" to provide a mono rear channel. There is no "discrete" 7.1 audio format right now.

but this unit will up convert any 5.1 signal to 7.1 via the DTS neo:6 technology.

dts Neo:6 will decode up to 6 channels of audio from a stereo matrix and is similar to Dolby Pro-Logic II, I believe, which will decode up to 5 channels.

I don't have a dts-es/dts Neo:6/DPLII capable receiver so I have yet to experience anything more than 5.1 audio at home.

Peace...

[Blackbelt Jones]

it's "matrixed" into the left and right surrounds

And by "Matrixed" you mean that Carrie-Anne Moss will enter my abode through my speakers and kung-fu my ass, right?

Thanks for learnin' me Tom! As Mallory Keaton from "Family Ties" once said: "you are wise in wisdom."

[snipsnapsappy]

Any reciever that has back surround decoding will take a 5.1 signal and matrix out sounds that are the same in the surrounds (mono) and place them in the center surround whether or not they are opfficial EX mixes or not. This effect actually works really well, check out either of the Star Wars movies. It is the same process (pro-logic) used to create the center channel with a 2 channel mix, just done in the surrounds.

Most higher end recievers (usually >$1000) that have THX processing do 7.1. They do the matrixing of the surrounds thingy mentioned above and actually extract two more channels instead of just one channel in the middle. Creating 7.1 non discrete channels of sound.

I have 6.1 but have never heard 7.1. 6.1 sounds really great with most discs, especially great sounding ones, but some 5.1 soundtracks collapse to the center surround (usually 4.1 discs), which is annoying. But usually DVDfile reviews tell you whether or not to disable EX/ES decoding. I keep the decoding enabled on my reciever.

My apartment is really too small to warrant 7.1. But I am sure it works really well in large rooms.

[Blackbelt Jones]

some 5.1 soundtracks collapse to the center surround (usually 4.1 discs)

Interesting. In your experience have you found that to be a common phenomenon? Other than 4.1 discs (which I do not think I own), does it seem particular to certain kinds of mixes... i.e. "older" mixes (those that were not natively 5.1 and subsequently re-mixed)? Or are new, "native" 5.1 mixes equally susceptible to center collapse?

[snipsnapsappy]

Age has nothing to do with it. It is whether or not the mix is 5.1 or 4.1 Some dvds say 5.1 but are actually 4.1.

Examples off the top of my head:
Abyss
Robin Hood: POT
Roger Rabbit
Big Trouble in Little China
Last of the Mohicans

It seems to be mostly movies from 1986-1992

I think the reason is because most movies in that time were actually presented in theaters in a surround format that had mono surrounds. Very few movies were presented in 5.1. Then in 1993, Dolby Digital SDDS, and DTS 5.1 became commonplace with almost all releases.

Similarly, some mixes are actually 6.1 but the packaging and info on the disc only says 5.1

Ex:
Jurassic Park III
A.I.
Minority Report
Harry Potter
Fight Club
Pitch Black
Britherhood of the Wolf

Some of these movies even have DDEX signs at the end of the credits.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by snipsnapsappy

This effect actually works really well, check out either of the Star Wars movies.

Both Star Wars movies on DVD have Dolby Digital EX audio tracks, so these are "bad" examples.

Peace...

[snipsnapsappy]

Right, but they are technically 5.1 soundtracks, not 6.1 or 7.1, they just have the EX flag, so the reciever knows to go into EX mode. I was just trying to point out how well the matrix method works because both Star Wars movies do use the matrix method because they are not discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mixes.

Other 5.1 mixes that do not have the flag can still be great EX mixes, Independence Day is one that comes to mind. Great use of the back surround even though the movie came 3 years before 6.1 was used in theatres

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by snipsnapsappy

Right, but they are technically 5.1 soundtracks, not 6.1 or 7.1, they just have the EX flag, so the reciever knows to go into EX mode. I was just trying to point out how well the matrix method works because both Star Wars movies do use the matrix method because they are not discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mixes.

Oh, ok. I thought you mentioned the Star Wars movies as examples of titles WITHOUT EX encoding that still sounded great due to the receiver's processing of the 5.1 signal.

Other 5.1 mixes that do not have the flag can still be great EX mixes, Independence Day is one that comes to mind. Great use of the back surround even though the movie came 3 years before 6.1 was used in theatres

Of course, you're not implying Independence Day has an EX audio mix, since it does not. It's your receiver that's doing the "magic" to provide audio to the rear surround channel. I'm simply fascinated by the whole concept of "matrixed audio".

What I don't understand is why there haven't been any direct competitors to dts-es discrete by prodiving more discrete audio channels than the 5 we've all come to appreciate so much today.

Peace...

[snipsnapsappy]

It probably has something to do with the downmixing into 5.1. Must be complcated.

And yes, I was saying how Independence Day came out in the theater before back surround, yet the whole movie has great uses of EX decoding when it is enabled in the reciever. Right in the beginning, when the titles fly past the viewer, some letters fly straight through the surrounds into the back surround, while other letters disappear in each side. It is a perfect panning effect and sounds like it was done on purpose. There are many other examples, but I personally love that one.

[SilentBob]

For all my movies i always make sure my receiver is set to DD-EX even if the track is just regular DD 5.1 (same thing for DTS)


Sadly i don't have the room to really display the awesome ability of th EX and ES decoding. I have a small 8 x 10 bedroom that i share with my brother. If i position myself just right the effects are pretty nice (JP III being one of my favs for the raptor attacks)

What I don't understand is why there haven't been any direct competitors to dts-es discrete by prodiving more discrete audio channels than the 5 we've all come to appreciate so much today.

Well its seems like they aren't (yet) the standard for most home theater owners. But i have been noticing a lot of newer receivers being lower in price yet provide the newer DTS-ES discrete sound. I think in a few years more dvd's will come out in the format but its just not standard as 5.1 is today. I think 10 years or something down the road 6.1 will be considered like 5.1 is today, as 7.1 will be the way of the future in sound [for a few years(close to SDDS sound i believe in theaters. Which is 8-channel sound)] Its just a matter of time and expense of the technology.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by SilentBob

I think 10 years or something down the road 6.1 will be considered like 5.1 is today,

You think that long? If the prices drop fast enough, I'm sure discrete 6 channel audio will become 'the norm' much sooner than that as more people are capable of experiencing it. Some won't have the physical space for the additional speaker(s). Some won't care about discrete audio. I just wonder if more DVDs will have discrete 6 channel audio mixes in the future since prices of consumer level gear that supports dts-es discrete, DD EX, etc., is dropping and that doesn't mean the cost to the studios to create the 6 channel audio mixes is dropping.

Maybe something "new" will be introduced within the next 5 years, like SDDS for the home (as you mention Bob) or something else.

as 7.1 will be the way of the future in sound

Again, 6.1 is an audio format and 7.1 is a speaker configuration...

Peace...

[Blackbelt Jones]

All righty, Tom... I finally got some frequency specs on the speakers for you (Creative just e-mailed me back... not as detailed as I wanted, but I'll take what I can get). There is a lot o' marketing hooey, but it does sound pretty intriguing... especially for the $499 price (they e-mailed me saying they are going to knock $100, so it is actually $399 for now). Should go good with that THX shirt of yours, no?

GigaWorks™ S750

A New Level Of Power And 7.1 Performance

Engineered with ground-breaking technologies, the GigaWorks™ S750 is a 7.1 speaker system that represents the new state of the art in PC audio performance. The two additional surround speakers give FPS gamers the advantage of precise positional audio that a 5.1 speaker system simply can't match. And with a chest-thumping 210 Watt subwoofer, and the amazing detail delivered by titanium supertweeters in each two-way satellite speaker, the GigaWorks S750 will give you a more intense and dramatic experience with games, movies and music than you've ever imagined.

• Unmatched 7.1 positional audio excels with EAX® and Microsoft® DirectSound® 3D supported games
• BASH® amplification offers 700 Watts of Total Power, for amazing dynamic headroom and distortion-free, lifelike playback levels
• Each tuned two-way satellite speaker features a 1” titanium supertweeter and a high-precision 3.5" midrange driver for clear, detailed response up to 40kHz - a perfect match for high-resolution DVD-Audio
• The huge dual-flared ported wooden subwoofer, featuring an 8" down-firing long-throw woofer, is driven by an amazing 210 Watt amplifier, and has 30% more acoustic volume than the subwoofer of the award-winning Creative MegaWorks™ THX 550 (which was no slouch itself), for true subsonic impact
• The Audio Control Pod features power, volume level (main, center, side, rear, and subwoofer), treble control and mute; headphone jack; auxiliary audio input; and an M-PORT™ for streaming audio from compatible NOMAD® MuVo® MP3 players
• A feature-rich wireless remote for ultimate convenience

And here is the $150 EX/DTS-ES decoder:

Creative DDTS-100 Decoder

The DDTS-100 is a digital decoder that incorporates all of the latest technologies, including Dolby® Digital EX, DTS®-ES, Dolby® Pro Logic® II (movie and music modes), and Neo:6 (cinema and music modes). It comes with a staggering 7 (seven!) selectable inputs, including three digital optical inputs, to support every piece of audio gear in the living room. It has a wireless remote and dual headphone jacks. And it will connect to 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 speaker systems.

[GaLvAtRoN187]

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones

All righty, Tom... I finally got some frequency specs on the speakers for you (Creative just e-mailed me back... not as detailed as I wanted, but I'll take what I can get).

Fair enough....

So the titanium tweeters go up to 40 KHz, but we don't know what the bottom end is nor do we know what the bottom end of the sub is. Still, for that price it might be worth checking out since you get titanium components, which adds a "cool" factor itself.

Peace...

[Blackbelt Jones]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

So the titanium tweeters go up to 40 KHz, but we don't know what the bottom end is nor do we know what the bottom end of the sub is.

Don't worry, Blackbelt is on the case. I will keep you posted.

[Blackbelt Jones]

Here ya are! Still not all the specs, but give me time...

Technical Specifications

Power Rating: 700 Watts RMS Total
700 Watts Total System Burst Power

Front Satellite Speakers: (Rated @ 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD @ 1kHz, 2 Channels Loaded) 70 Watts RMS per channel

Side Satellite Speakers: (Rated @ 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD @ 1kHz, 2 Channels Loaded) 70 Watts RMS per channel

Rear Satellite Speakers: (Rated @ 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD @ 1kHz, 2 Channels Loaded) 70 Watts RMS per channel

Center Satellite Speaker: (Rated @ 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD @ 1kHz, Single Channel Loaded) 70 Watts RMS

Subwoofer: (Rated @ 8 ohms @ 0.2% THD @ 70Hz, Single Channel Loaded) 210 Watts RMS

Signal-to-Noise-Ratio: 99 dB

Overall Frequency Response: 25Hz to 40kHz