What is Mini-DV

[DooGieHowie]

im thinking about buying a mini-dv camcorder but im not sure exactly how they work....when u record the video are u able to transfer to a computer if u record on one of the mini-dv tapes...can they take still pics etc....any information about how they work and such would be awesome...i also i dunno if i put this in the right thread so if i didnt im sorry

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by DooGieHowie

im thinking about buying a mini-dv camcorder but im not sure exactly how they work....when u record the video are u able to transfer to a computer if u record on one of the mini-dv tapes...can they take still pics etc....any information about how they work and such would be awesome...i also i dunno if i put this in the right thread so if i didnt im sorry

You can take still pics and you can transfer to a PC, but you'll need a firewire card. I think most new PCs come with one, but I may be wrong. You will also need a program to cature the video from the camera. The camera you buy should come with this. Then you can get a digital editting program to edit your video.

-PH

[DooGieHowie]

ok sweet...what recording format is used when transferring over...i was reading about a few cameras that had a mem stick for recording mpeg4 but what is the on the tapes....does the quality suffer when transferred

[Pirate]

The transfered quality has to do with the output file. It will ask you when you conenct the camera if you want to compress the video (quality loss) or just dump the full video onto the HD. Is this just going to be for home movies?

-PH

[firestorm]

The video format on the PC likely varies from one manufacturer to another. We have a Sony MiniDV cam here at work, but I haven't used it in a while, and don't recall what the file format was. You can use firewire or USB with that cam, and I'm sure many other manufacturers have similar options. Since it is all digital, the only quality lost would be if you use any kind of compression.

[DooGieHowie]

it will be for my own use....like whatever i feel like recording nothing professional or anything...what r the best ones to buy...i was looking at a Canon ZR100, ZR300 and a Samsung SC-D353

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by firestorm

We have a Sony MiniDV cam here at work, but I haven't used it in a while, and don't recall what the file format was.

Most editors give you several options (.mpg, .avi, .mov, etc).

-PH

[DooGieHowie]

so bascially if i want to record video transfer to my computer and burn dvd's this would be perfect

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by DooGieHowie

so bascially if i want to record video transfer to my computer and burn dvd's this would be perfect

Most cameras would be perfect with the right software. As for the best cam, you'd have to hit review sites for that.

-PH

[DooGieHowie]

considering i only have a usb connection on my comp....hahah tho id love to have a video in and out card with s-video and such

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

You can take still pics and you can transfer to a PC, but you'll need a firewire card.

Photos can be transferred over USB but video requires Firewire, right?

Fortunately, PCI Firewire cards are fairly cheap these days.

Peace...

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Photos can be transferred over USB but video requires Firewire, right?

Fortunately, PCI Firewire cards are fairly cheap these days.

Peace...

As far as I know, you do need firewire for video. The new consumer cams may be able to USB, but I've not seen them. The last consumer cam I had was a Sony DV8 and that was firewire.

-PH

[videoworx]

okay, some basics and specifics here.

Mini DV is a format that records a digital video signal at 25Mb/second (3.6 MB/second). When you transfer it to a PC or Mac via firewire (the only interface that is possible with Mini-DV), you aren't losing any quality. You are simply copying data from one media format to another (digital tape to a hard drive).

On a PC, this information is wrapped into the AVI format. On a mac, you get a Quicktime. DV video files consume 216 MB/minute (or approx. 11 gigs per hour).

Windows comes with a video editing application that will recognize all mini-dv cameras (Windows Movie Maker). It's not great, but does the job. If you want to step up, I'd suggest Adobe Premiere Elements 2.0, which is a consumer-oriented version of their pro software - for the price, $100, it's a fantastic program. Elements includes the ability to burn DVD's of the final edited project as well - complete with menus.

On the Mac side, you've got iMovie, which is a great video editing application if you want to edit home movies together. Stepping up to Final Cut Express will give you far more editing control. In order to burn DVD's, you need to switch to iDVD, but getting files from one to the other is painless.

If you decide to go with a format OTHER than mini-dv or digital8, you will start to hit snags with editing software. DVD camcorders, for instance, record to MPEG-2 - a format that was never designed to be edited. Adobe has solved this problem, by allowing you to import the data directly from the DVD into Premiere elements (something you can't do with the pro version). This will result in slight quality loss when you export the finished edited video back to DVD.

Mpeg-4, again, is a destination format, and was never intended to be edited. Importing files into editing software will result in quality loss.

It really boils down to convenience vs. control of the end product. If you don't intend to edit, go with those cool JVC Everio models (which record directly to a hard drive).
The DVD camcorders are convenient, because you can toss the dvd straight into any player (after 20 minutes of "finalizing" the disc so it can be recognized).
Mini DV/Digital 8 (the recording format is identical, only the tape size is different) is the only consumer format that is easy to edit without sacrificing video quality. Over the next year, you'll see more software that is capable of editing mpeg-4 without significant quality loss - but this will require a fast PC.

And then there's HDV...

[Pirate]

What videoworx said...

-PH

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

What videoworx said...

I disagree.

Peace...

[DooGieHowie]

what exactly is firewire....and what do i need to check for on the specs of the cameras to see if it needs firewire or not

[NotEd]

Originally Posted by DooGieHowie

what exactly is firewire....and what do i need to check for on the specs of the cameras to see if it needs firewire or not

FireWire (also known as i.Link or IEEE 1394) is a personal computer (and digital audio/video) serial bus interface standard, offering high-speed communications and isochronous real-time data services. FireWire can be considered a successor technology to the obsolescent SCSI Parallel Interface. Up to 63 devices can be daisy-chained to one FireWire port.

Almost all modern digital camcorders have included this connection since 1995. Many computers intended for home or professional audio/video use have built-in FireWire ports including all Macintosh and Sony computers currently produced. FireWire was also an attractive feature on the Apple iPod for several years, permitting new tracks to be uploaded in a few seconds and also for the battery to be recharged concurrently with one cable.

(thanks Wikipedia. Longer article here.)

Firewire cares can be had for as low as $19, if you look for them. I have read some reviews of newer camcorders that have the ability to transfer video over USB 2.0, but I can not recall models right now.

[videoworx]

I have read some reviews of newer camcorders that have the ability to transfer video over USB 2.0

DV does not travel across USB 2.0 (only flavours of mpeg). Some editing software will therefore not recognize this connection.
Some, if not all, MiniDV camcorders will have USB connections, but they are strictly for still image transfer (photo editing applications will recognize the video camera as a still camera using the USB connection. You can also use the device as a web-cam using this method).

The reason firewire (or IEEE-1394/i.link) is used, instead of USB 2.0 is:
a.) it came out first
b.) has a faster throughput. Theoretically, USB 2.0 can go 480mb/s, but in practise motherboard bus speeds slow this down. Since DV video requires a consistent througput, it is still the preferred method for consumer/prosumer video transfer. This is also a reason why you can't use USB 2.0 hard drives to edit video (well, you can, but you wouldn't want to).

The reason most PC's don't have firewire connectors as standard components, is because Apple invented the interface. Thus, ever PC reseller that includes them, has to pay Apple a licensing fee. This is a primary reason why Intel does not include them on their motherboard designs (and was a big reason why USB 2.0 was developed).

The newer flavour of firewire (called firewire "b", or firewire "800") has twice the throughput of the original connection (800 megabits/second, hence the name), but is incompatible with video cameras. So, if you purchase a firewire 800 PCI expansion card, make sure it has a regular connection on it, as well (also called Firewire(FW)400).

[NotEd]

True (about the USB for video that videoworx pointed out). I have seen some camcorders with USB ports that claim to handle video, as I wrote before, but they may have been devices that recorded direct to DVD or other formats.
For example, I have one of these JVC HDV cameras sitting next to me now (I'm at work as I definitely couldn't afford one of these myself) and the unit has no USB on it what-so-ever.

USB 2.0 was developed partially because Intel did not want to pay the licensing fee to Apple for Firewire.