Is there ANY reason not to buy a tv now?

["The Dude"]

Hey guys, well my payments from the stuff I sold from EBAY finally arrived, now I can serioulsy go shopping!

The TV I decided to get is the Toshiba 62MX195 DLP 1080P. Reading on the forums, it's my understanding that although this tv is 1080p, it can't receive a 1080P signal directly. It receives the info, down converts it to 1080i and then re-converts it into 1080P. Is this correct?

So the big question is - do I get the TV now or wait until there are TV's that can accept 1080P signals directly? Would I benefit at all by waiting?

[Pirate]

Correct, this TV upconverts to 1080p. Personally, I would wait for a true 1080p to go with the new formats. On the other hand, the true 1080p's may be really expensive at first, so you may want to go ahead and get the TV with the understanding that you will have to upgrade at some point. Or you could get somethinf that was just "pretty good" for now and then break the bank later on a nice 1080p.

Have I already asked you if you've ruled out a projector?

-PH

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Correct, this TV upconverts to 1080p.

It will upconvert non-1080i to 1080p. It will de-interlace 1080i to 1080p.

Peace...

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Have I already asked you if you've ruled out a projector?

-PH

You haven't PH. A projector is not an option, my space is VERY limited. This is really a tough decision - especially when you've been watching a crappy 27" for 12-13 years. Not to mention that my reds are starting to bleed really, really bad, which kinda forced me into selling off some of my prop collection in order to get the TV. Any idea when we'll know what the 07' product is and how much it'll cost? Isn't CES coming up?

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

It will upconvert non-1080i to 1080p. It will de-interlace 1080i to 1080p.

Peace...

But the TV it self won't except a pure 1080p input though, correct?

-PH

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by The Dude

You haven't PH. A projector is not an option, my space is VERY limited. This is really a tough decision - especially when you've been watching a crappy 27" for 12-13 years. Not to mention that my reds are starting to bleed really, really bad, which kinda forced me into selling off some of my prop collection in order to get the TV. Any idea when we'll know what the 07' product is and how much it'll cost? Isn't CES coming up?

I'm really not sure to be honest.

This really depends on how much you want that 1080p. I mean, my projector only does 720p/1080i as do most peoples and, at least for the next year, that’s as high as I’ll go. I’ve not seen HD-DVD or BR at 1080p, so I have no idea if it’s even worth the extra cash. 1080i might be good enough. The question you have to ask yourself is when the 1080p TVs come out, will it drive you nuts not having one. If the answer is “no,” then get yourself the TV you’re looking at.

-PH

[SilentBob]

I too thought about waiting for a 1080p tv (The SED tv's that have been delayed 1-2 years now) but i finally gave up and bought a tv that pretty much does what your potential tv does. I have to say that i ain't feeling sorry one bit for not waiting for these TRUE 1080p HDTV's to come out. Personally 720p looks great to my eyes and i shall see what 1080p upconverted looks like when i finally make the movie to soem sort of HD media source in the future, but them XBox360 games do look awesome

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

But the TV it self won't except a pure 1080p input though, correct?

Correct.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

The question you have to ask yourself is when the 1080p TVs come out, will it drive you nuts not having one. If the answer is “no,” then get yourself the TV you’re looking at.

Excellent question and advice! We can call it the "1080p itch"

Peace...

[firestorm]

I definately agree on the "itch" comments. However, isn't the only real advantage of 1080p inputs the fact that the TV would not have deinterlace the signal? If a TV can deinterlace a 1080i signal properly, is it likely that you would ever notice a difference between that and native 1080p? Between the wait and likely cost premiums of a TV with 1080p inputs, I think that would be a very valid thing to consider.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by firestorm

I definately agree on the "itch" comments. However, isn't the only real advantage of 1080p inputs the fact that the TV would not have deinterlace the signal? If a TV can deinterlace a 1080i signal properly, is it likely that you would ever notice a difference between that and native 1080p? Between the wait and likely cost premiums of a TV with 1080p inputs, I think that would be a very valid thing to consider.

I might be wrong, but I think the difference would be seen in motion shots.

-PH

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I might be wrong, but I think the difference would be seen in motion shots.

-PH

That's what I'm thinking but I haven't seen the differences yet nor heard anyone give it (1080P) a huge thumbs up overall.

I will say though....having an input-able (sic?) display and a output-able (sic?) device would have me set for the next ten years. The concept alone makes it that cool, and being that cool I could finally stop the upgrade madness.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

I might be wrong, but I think the difference would be seen in motion shots.

That's when comparing 1080i to 1080p. firestorm's point is an excellent one. The only advantage of having the player output 1080p is if the player can produce a better de-interlaced image than the display if the display does the de-interlacing. I don't know how 1080p from one of these players works but if the video is stored de-interlaced already, the player would have to interlace it to produce the 1080i image. Then the TV would then de-interlace that image to produce the 1080p image that gets displayed. Since we're talking about HDMI in some or most cases, we can eliminate digital --> analog conversion issues and focus on interlacing/de-interlacing.

If the display has excellent de-interlacing ability, 1080p would be 1080p and I would be surprised if there would be any visual difference. There might be if I'm right above about a 1080i image being created from an already de-interlaced video source if the interlacing process introduced some artifacts.

Without knowing the specifics on how all that works, I'm thinking people want 1080p output from the player into a 1080p input on the display for "warm and fuzzy" feelings, more than for technical reasons.

Peace...

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Without knowing the specifics on how all that works, I'm thinking people want 1080p output from the player into a 1080p input on the display for "warm and fuzzy" feelings, more than for technical reasons.

Yes, that would complete me.

-PH

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

Yes, that would complete me.

Hey dude, don't turn this thread into a CF....

Peace...

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

Hey dude, don't turn this thread into a CF....

Hey, it's not my fault that you're sexist.

Originally Posted by tomdkat

That's when comparing 1080i to 1080p.

I thought that was also an interlacing vs progressive argument? Wouldn't that still be a factor here?

-PH

[Iguana Man]

Well I want warm and fuzzy. And what the hell is "CF"?!?!?

Dear Lord, please don't let it be what I'm thinking.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Well I want warm and fuzzy. And what the hell is "CF"?!?!?

Dear Lord, please don't let it be what I'm thinking.

It's Tom and everyone else on this board demeaning women:

http://forums.dvdfile.com/showthread...293#post763293

-PH

[Iguana Man]

Oh thank goodness me....I thought it meant something else entirely.

Don't ask.

On topic, Tom, what makes you feel the 1080i versus 1080p is going to be minimal in difference given a displays ability to do it's de-interlacing well? What if the display did native 1080p well?

I wanna hear more on this.

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Oh thank goodness me....I thought it meant something else entirely.

Don't ask.

On topic, Tom, what makes you feel the 1080i versus 1080p is going to be minimal in difference given a displays ability to do it's de-interlacing well? What if the display did native 1080p well?

I wanna hear more on this.

As do I, since I'm the one that started this whole thing! I know alittle bit about video, but not as much as some of you guys, which is why I started this thread. This will be my second tv that I'll buy, the last one was the 27" that I bought about 13yrs ago. So I want to make this decision a good one.

So if was to wait, how long of a wait would that be? When do the new models start hitting stores? Is it July/August?

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by The Dude

So if was to wait, how long of a wait would that be? When do the new models start hitting stores? Is it July/August?

I'm thinking more like 2007.

-PH

[Pirate]

OK, here ya go: http://www.cnet.com/4831-11405_1-641...ml?tag=ltstimg

JVC pioneered LCoS projection display technology, which it calls HD-ILA in rear-projection form, and its 2006 lineup includes three each of 1080p-native-resolution and 720p-resolution HDTVs. The company redesigned the optical engine in the 1080p sets to include a new dynamic auto iris that's said to dynamically respond to what's onscreen, thus improving reproduction of dark scenes--typically the most challenging for any display. The auto-iris feature worked well in the company's 2005 models, so we're anxious to see how it has improved this version. One thing that remains the same, however, is that none of the new JVC LCoS sets can accept 1080p sources via HDMI.

The 1080p lineup includes the 56-inch HD-56FN97 ($3,499 street), the 61-inch HD-61FN97 ($3,799), and the 70-inch HD-70FN97 ($5,499). These prices are a few hundred dollars less than those of the 2005 models, and all three sets will hit stores in July. The new 720p sets will be available as early as March and include the 52-inch HD-52G787 ($2,799), the 56-inch HD-56G787 ($3,199), and the HD-61G787 ($3,499).

So, it looks like you're looking at about 4K for the 61" DLP with native 1080p.

Also, here is an AVS thread with pics and discussion. There is some conflicting info there though.

-PH

["The Dude"]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

OK, here ya go: http://www.cnet.com/4831-11405_1-641...ml?tag=ltstimg



So, it looks like you're looking at about 4K for the 61" DLP with native 1080p.

Also, here is an AVS thread with pics and discussion. There is some conflicting info there though.

-PH

The Toshiba I'm looking to get retails for $3999, but right now I can get it for about $3300 total, not counting the stand. If that infor is any indication, the prices will be about the same.

Thanks for the link, PH. I'll have to check that out when I get a minute.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

So, it looks like you're looking at about 4K for the 61" DLP with native 1080p.

The Toshiba "The Dude" is considering has 1080p as its native resolution as well. "Native resolution" refers to what is displayed, not what is accepted as input. It's desired to have a display that accepts its native resolution as an input but that's a different topic.

native resolution = what the display will show

Additionally, some displays have multiple native resolutions. My Toshiba 57HX81, for example, has 540p and 1080i as its native resolutions. That means, it will only display 540p or 1080i. When I watch DVDs, the TV upconverts the 480p signal to 540p and then displays it. Some of the newer Toshibas allow you to choose the display option, so 480p could be interlaced and upconverted (or vice-versa) to 1080i, if so desired.

Peace...

[Iguana Man]

Originally Posted by piratehunter

OK, here ya go: http://www.cnet.com/4831-11405_1-641...ml?tag=ltstimg



So, it looks like you're looking at about 4K for the 61" DLP with native 1080p.

Also, here is an AVS thread with pics and discussion. There is some conflicting info there though.

-PH

Not to be picky, but it isn't DLP. It's LCOS. Different animal than DLP.

Oh and thanks....just when I thought I was done the very same company that provides me my Living room entertainment is NOW going to be replaced by their NEW 1080P unit. If you feel anywhere near as bad as I, please send your check to: Iguana Man @ dvdfile. com



Edited: No conflicting info as far as 1080P input via HDMI. COOL!

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

Oh thank goodness me....I thought it meant something else entirely.

Don't ask.

It also means "Compact Flash".

On topic, Tom, what makes you feel the 1080i versus 1080p is going to be minimal in difference given a displays ability to do it's de-interlacing well? What if the display did native 1080p well?

Well, I don't know what will be the end result but my main point is 1080p is 1080p once a video image is processed on a display with 1080p as its native resolution.

So, let's take the Toshiba being mentioned in this thread. If you feed it a 480i or 480p signal (say from a DVD player or cable, etc), it will upconvert the signal and de-interlace it displaying a 1080p image. Since a 480-line image won't have as much video information as a 1080-line image, the TV will mathmatically extrapolate and generate the missing video information and use it to produce the 1080-line image that ultimately gets displayed. Cool.

If you feed a 1080i image to this TV, it doesn't have to upconvert anything since it already has 1080 lines of video information. The issue here is that 1080 lines will be contained in two video fields, each containing 540 lines of video. Combine the fields into frame and voila, you get 1080 lines of video (540+540=1080). Cool. This is basically the de-interlacing process.

Now, the issue of whether to de-interlace in the DVD player or in the display has been around for a while. With the talk of 1080i vs 1080p, modern HDTVs are capable of de-interlacing much better than previous HDTVs. Some even use Faroudja technology to de-interalce. Therefore, modern HDTVs have the capability (at least some do) to de-interlace a 1080i image as well as any outboard scaler or HD quality DVD player (which we've yet to see in action). As a result, the "need" to have the player do the de-interlacing is greatly reduced, simply because the TV can do it so well. Case in point: the Home Theater HiFi guys who produce the DVD player shootout reports compared a Pioneer Elite HDTV against the progressive scan DVD players and at the time, the Pioneer TV de-interlaced better than a number of progressive scan DVD players.

If the TV can produce a 1080p image as well as, if not bet