Reaching past what I consider "affordable", worth it?

Sehnzeleid · 04-13-2007, 07:43 PM

Yes, yet another receiver upgrade question/advice thread. :p

Currently I have a $500 2004 Harmon Kardon AVR 235 (my first ever receiver). I'm generally pleased with it, but the allure of the beefy $1k MSRP Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo models has caused the itch to upgrade. The 235 has no HDMI capability at all and I'm finding via analog I can hear the hiss of the noise floor on my Boston Acoustic VR3s. Plus this might seem stupid but the receiver doesn't remember the front display dim setting, so every time I turn it on I gotta dim the (very bright on default) display.

Though I'm particularly not interested in having multi-zone ability, which many higher range receivers tend to feature. I just want a one-room dedicated kick ass A/V receiver with superior sound quality (most important to me). I must admit, I drool when just looking at the Pio Elites in person.

Though the upcoming Onkyo TX-SR805 looks tempting, but when getting in the $1k range, is it better just to wait things out longer to see what other companies offer? Also really is it true that you really get what you pay for in the receiver realm? If I do I get a $1k receiver, it'll be the most cash I've spent so far on a single component.

Iguana Man · 04-13-2007, 11:06 PM

Diminishing returns....it gets you (me) every time!

For 1K, there are some serious all in one avr's out there. And man do they do alot of extra stuff I don't need (like multi zone as you mentioned).

You probably need to write down all the critical features that you demand, and then look at how much all the extras are costing you. An all in one avr is cool, but you might consider buying separates. As in an amp and a processor.

A really good amp will not need upgrading. Good clean power often times makes a world of difference.

I think Onkyo still offers this, and I know for sure othes do. Just a thought.

***Wirehed*** · 04-13-2007, 11:22 PM

I don't think you can get into 5.1 channel audio seperates for $1000.
But if sound quality is what you're looking for, that's certainly the place to look for it --you'll just have to spend a little more (well, probably a lot more really

)

Iguana Man · 04-13-2007, 11:31 PM

Your probably right Sea, I was thinking amp more than both..hey, I got some cold ones in me.

But it IS an option if he checks out Audigon and others. I guess I was trying to say seperates are at least a consideration, but getting them both for 1K may be tough unless you feel ok going used.

Iggy

(trying to save face!

)

Taxi · 04-13-2007, 11:48 PM

I'm at work so I can't check it from here, but doesn't Outlaw Audio have an under $1K 7 channel amp? That would still leave you with a processor to buy I suppose, but at least it's a start.

***Wirehed*** · 04-14-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxi

I'm at work so I can't check it from here, but doesn't Outlaw Audio have an under $1K 7 channel amp? That would still leave you with a processor to buy I suppose, but at least it's a start.

Yes, they do.
And at one time I was considering it for my bedroom system, but my neighbor bought their reciever and while the build quality is quite nice, it didn't have a particularly great sound. I actually felt it was very under powered.

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 12:27 AM

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 12:40 AM

Ultimate AV: Outlaw Review 7125

Doesn't sound too bad at all.

Taxi · 04-14-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

Yes, they do.
And at one time I was considering it for my bedroom system, but my neighbor bought their reciever and while the build quality is quite nice, it didn't have a particularly great sound. I actually felt it was very under powered.

He had the receiver, but did he have the amp to go with it?

I think I've heard that about their receiver before too, because I think it's really designed to go with their amp.

zepplongfellow · 04-14-2007, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamonkey

I don't think you can get into 5.1 channel audio seperates for $1000.
But if sound quality is what you're looking for, that's certainly the place to look for it --you'll just have to spend a little more (well, probably a lot more really

)

Look here the ultra under $1000

Iguana Man · 04-14-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Ultimate AV: Outlaw Review 7125

Doesn't sound too bad at all.

Outlaw....thank you. In my beer filled mind last night I typed Onkyo, but it was Outlaw that I wanted to say.

***Wirehed*** · 04-14-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxi

He had the receiver, but did he have the amp to go with it?

I think I've heard that about their receiver before too, because I think it's really designed to go with their amp.

Nope, just the receiver. I would love to hear the amp with it though.

***Wirehed*** · 04-14-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepplongfellow

Look here the ultra under $1000

Interesting.

powerknowledge · 04-14-2007, 05:37 PM

If you're still thinking about an integrated AVR: If the discount pricing for the Onkyo 804 (which lists the same as the 805 will when it comes out in June) is any indication, you could get the 805 for around $700 easily, maybe a bit less. Unlike their more comparable peers from Pioneer and Denon, Onkyos are produced in higher quantities, hence greater discounts.

But everyone here is also right: these AVRs have SO many options that will never be used by most folks that it may be worth spending a bit more on the dedicated decoder/amp combos you're looking at. And those sure are sexy...

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerknowledge

If you're still thinking about an integrated AVR: If the discount pricing for the Onkyo 804 (which lists the same as the 805 will when it comes out in June) is any indication, you could get the 805 for around $700 easily, maybe a bit less.

Now you debating whether or not just to buy the 804 now (or soon) at discount.

HDMI 1.3 would be more future proof, but I imagine 36+ bit "deep color" displays won't be within my (and many others) price range for years. Also internal HD audio decoding is nice, but all the current HD DVD players don't do pass through.

Really, I just want a more substantial AVR to match my more substanial speakers. Also cutting out the need for the multi-channel analog outs and other cables for the use of just HDMI for the audio processing of some of my components would be great too.

Anyone know if the 804 accepts 5.1-7.1 PCM through HDMI? Just in case Blu-ray is in my future.

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepplongfellow

Look here the ultra under $1000

After looking into it more, I want that.

zepplongfellow · 04-14-2007, 09:03 PM

You can look at avs forums and av123 forums for more info. Some people are reporting bugs with the processor and they are adding new firmware and it does have a 5 year warranty and If you get upgradites they will take 40% off your next purchase. Now I am thinking of a combo of the amp and they new Onkyo 805. The outlaw would be my #2 choice because of room size I don't know I need separates but I WANT IT

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 10:25 PM

Hmmm...

Maybe I should just opt for the Emotiva amp and keep my H/K?

My H/K has pre-outs.

Sehnzeleid · 04-14-2007, 11:05 PM

Hmmm, got this reaction from a friend:

Quote:

Going from your H/K to this Onkyp TX-SR805 reciever would be a waste of your money. Im not saying that the ONKYO is a bad reciever its just not a big enough difference to warrent the purchase.

The EMOTIVA is pretty much "bottom of the barrel" seperates, they are that cheap for a reason. NO WAY they sound any better a $1000 reciever. I would spend my money elswhere, maybe at......

Outlaw. Great stuff if you are on a budget. I have heard the pre-amp and 7 channel amp and it comes "somewhat" close to my ELITE reciever. And thats saying a lot considering I have a $3500 reciever! But you should also look at E-Bay and Audiogon to see if you could get a hold of the H/K 5 channel and 2 channels amps. Then you could use your reciever as a pre-amp. That would be a great combo!!

Why the urge for seperates at all though?? Because really in my opinion unless you are going to go as far as a LEXICON or ROTEL for example you are NOT going to see enough of a difference to REALLY make it worth while.

Now if you just want to set up a nice 2-channel music rig.........ahhh yes go for a set of sweet ass tube amps and some nice low impedence speakers.......oh YEAH!

Again, if you REALLY want to try seperates and want to stay on a budget go for the OUTLAW or H/K amp combo. You could always get another pre-amp down the road and 700 high current H/K watts!!!!! That would sound SWEET!

***Wirehed*** · 04-15-2007, 12:44 AM

Well obviously you should go listen to what ever you're going to purchase.

I'm not impressed with Rotel or H/K equipment myself.

Better and "worth it" are very subjective.

Sehnzeleid · 04-15-2007, 12:14 PM

I just noticed one of my local AV shops has a demo 405W per channel/five channel SunFire Cinema Grand Signature for $2,000.

That would be going overboard though.

***chlngr1970*** · 04-15-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

I just noticed one of my local AV shops has a demo 405W per channel/five channel SunFire Cinema Grand Signature for $2,000.

That would be going overboard though.

Why?

j

***Wirehed*** · 04-15-2007, 06:29 PM

If you like it loud, that would be the way to go. Pretty good price on that unit too. They might let you take it home and try it out, that could be fun.

Iguana Man · 04-15-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

The 235 has no HDMI capability at all and I'm finding via analog I can hear the hiss of the noise floor on my Boston Acoustic VR3s.

I just realized I don't know what you mean here. Can you elaborate please?

Sehnzeleid · 04-15-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iguana Man

I just realized I don't know what you mean here. Can you elaborate please?

Basically I think my BA's are sensitive enough to make the tiny imperfections (probably due to shielding) in my HK's amp section audible. I've done quite a bit to dispel possible grounding issues.

Looks like I've put the Outlaw Model 7500 on my short list.

I'm probably going to stop by my local Magnolia, though I'm unsure what amps they'd have.

***chlngr1970*** · 04-16-2007, 01:09 AM

Is it a stand alone store, or inside a Best Buy, cause I don't think they have amps in store. They MIGHT be able to order them tho...

j

Sehnzeleid · 04-16-2007, 03:50 PM

Dammit, it looks like my center and rears are only recommended at 150 and 125 max amp power, respectively. Probably dangerous going 200W RMS.

powerknowledge · 04-16-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sehnzeleid

Now you debating whether or not just to buy the 804 now (or soon) at discount.

...
Anyone know if the 804 accepts 5.1-7.1 PCM through HDMI? Just in case Blu-ray is in my future.

Yeah, that's kind of my boat. BUT here's the deciding factor: the 804 only does 5.1LPCM through HDMI, while the 805 does 7.1 (and also can handle decoding the advanced 7.1 signals it receives over HDMI). For me, that's a FAR more important future-proofing feature than DeepColor (which my Sony 60A2020, which I likely won't replace for many, many, many years, won't accept anyway).

So yeah, I'm going to wait a month and a half at least, and see what kinds of deals emerge!

04-13-2007, 07:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006	Reaching past what I consider "affordable", worth it? Yes, yet another receiver upgrade question/advice thread. :p Currently I have a $500 2004 Harmon Kardon AVR 235 (my first ever receiver). I'm generally pleased with it, but the allure of the beefy $1k MSRP Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo models has caused the itch to upgrade. The 235 has no HDMI capability at all and I'm finding via analog I can hear the hiss of the noise floor on my Boston Acoustic VR3s. Plus this might seem stupid but the receiver doesn't remember the front display dim setting, so every time I turn it on I gotta dim the (very bright on default) display. Though I'm particularly not interested in having multi-zone ability, which many higher range receivers tend to feature. I just want a one-room dedicated kick ass A/V receiver with superior sound quality (most important to me). I must admit, I drool when just looking at the Pio Elites in person. Though the upcoming Onkyo TX-SR805 looks tempting, but when getting in the $1k range, is it better just to wait things out longer to see what other companies offer? Also really is it true that you really get what you pay for in the receiver realm? If I do I get a $1k receiver, it'll be the most cash I've spent so far on a single component.

04-13-2007, 11:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Iguana Man Ex-BadHumor Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA	Diminishing returns....it gets you (me) every time! For 1K, there are some serious all in one avr's out there. And man do they do alot of extra stuff I don't need (like multi zone as you mentioned). You probably need to write down all the critical features that you demand, and then look at how much all the extras are costing you. An all in one avr is cool, but you might consider buying separates. As in an amp and a processor. A really good amp will not need upgrading. Good clean power often times makes a world of difference. I think Onkyo still offers this, and I know for sure othes do. Just a thought. __________________ Get outside and have fun! Nacho Website Focus

04-13-2007, 11:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
*Wirehed* Producer/Admin NSFW Off 'the list' Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacto, Ca --Near Galt, home of LeVar Burton	I don't think you can get into 5.1 channel audio seperates for $1000. But if sound quality is what you're looking for, that's certainly the place to look for it --you'll just have to spend a little more (well, probably a lot more really ) __________________ The Order of the Zombie. The world's greatest zombie culture website. "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos" In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits for the pizza delivery guy.

04-13-2007, 11:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Iguana Man Ex-BadHumor Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA	Your probably right Sea, I was thinking amp more than both..hey, I got some cold ones in me. But it IS an option if he checks out Audigon and others. I guess I was trying to say seperates are at least a consideration, but getting them both for 1K may be tough unless you feel ok going used. Iggy (trying to save face! ) __________________ Get outside and have fun! Nacho Website Focus

04-13-2007, 11:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Taxi Admin Emeritus Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Orygun	I'm at work so I can't check it from here, but doesn't Outlaw Audio have an under $1K 7 channel amp? That would still leave you with a processor to buy I suppose, but at least it's a start. __________________ *Admin Emeritus* \| DDS#42 No, I am not back. Eschew obfuscation.

04-14-2007, 12:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006

04-14-2007, 12:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006	Ultimate AV: Outlaw Review 7125 Doesn't sound too bad at all.

04-14-2007, 05:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
powerknowledge Actor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Twin Cities Suburb	If you're still thinking about an integrated AVR: If the discount pricing for the Onkyo 804 (which lists the same as the 805 will when it comes out in June) is any indication, you could get the 805 for around $700 easily, maybe a bit less. Unlike their more comparable peers from Pioneer and Denon, Onkyos are produced in higher quantities, hence greater discounts. But everyone here is also right: these AVRs have SO many options that will never be used by most folks that it may be worth spending a bit more on the dedicated decoder/amp combos you're looking at. And those sure are sexy... __________________ "The splinter in your eye is the best magnifying glass." Theodor W. Adorno, "Minima Moralia"

04-14-2007, 09:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
zepplongfellow Thread Killer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The U.S. 2nd Most Dangerous City	You can look at avs forums and av123 forums for more info. Some people are reporting bugs with the processor and they are adding new firmware and it does have a 5 year warranty and If you get upgradites they will take 40% off your next purchase. Now I am thinking of a combo of the amp and they new Onkyo 805. The outlaw would be my #2 choice because of room size I don't know I need separates but I WANT IT

04-14-2007, 10:25 PM	#18 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006	Hmmm... Maybe I should just opt for the Emotiva amp and keep my H/K? My H/K has pre-outs.

04-15-2007, 12:44 AM	#20 (permalink)
*Wirehed* Producer/Admin NSFW Off 'the list' Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacto, Ca --Near Galt, home of LeVar Burton	Well obviously you should go listen to what ever you're going to purchase. I'm not impressed with Rotel or H/K equipment myself. Better and "worth it" are very subjective. __________________ The Order of the Zombie. The world's greatest zombie culture website. "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos" In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits for the pizza delivery guy.

04-15-2007, 12:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006	I just noticed one of my local AV shops has a demo 405W per channel/five channel SunFire Cinema Grand Signature for $2,000. That would be going overboard though.

04-15-2007, 06:29 PM	#23 (permalink)
*Wirehed* Producer/Admin NSFW Off 'the list' Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacto, Ca --Near Galt, home of LeVar Burton	If you like it loud, that would be the way to go. Pretty good price on that unit too. They might let you take it home and try it out, that could be fun. __________________ The Order of the Zombie. The world's greatest zombie culture website. "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl dominos" In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits for the pizza delivery guy.

04-16-2007, 01:09 AM	#26 (permalink)
*chlngr1970* Producer/Admin Tenacious "OB" Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Spanaway Washington	Is it a stand alone store, or inside a Best Buy, cause I don't think they have amps in store. They MIGHT be able to order them tho... j __________________ "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and be loved in return" Christian, Moulin Rouge

04-16-2007, 03:50 PM	#27 (permalink)
Sehnzeleid Actor Join Date: Jul 2006	Dammit, it looks like my center and rears are only recommended at 150 and 125 max amp power, respectively. Probably dangerous going 200W RMS.