Robert Altman and Sour Grapes - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

Porkchop · 03-12-2002, 08:28 PM

I've never personally cared much for Altman's films (except The Player, which I quite liked), but I didn't know much about the man himself. Now I've taken a dislike to him as a result of this little article:
--------------
In an interview with Roger Friedman of FoxNews.com, Altman remarked, "Titanic I thought was the most dreadful piece of work I've ever seen in my entire life." He also had harsh words for American Beauty: "So badly acted and directed. But people like that."
--------------

I personally love both Titanic and American Beauty far more than anything Altman has ever done. But even aside from that, you just don't go around publically bashing the work of other artists like that. I think it's a sign of bad character.

Cap'n Katanga · 03-12-2002, 08:39 PM

But Dr T and the Women was a work of Genius?

The guys a jackass and he bears more than a striking resemblance to Colonel Sanders.

I guess he's setting up his ego cushion for his inevitable loss come Oscar nite. Like "Look at all the pieces of shit that have won...I'm a TRUE genius." What a load a shite.

Lex M · 03-12-2002, 11:30 PM

Robert Altman is notoriously angry, curmudgeonly, and critical of mainstream Hollywood films, and that's part of his charm. Sure, his filmography is not beyond reproach, and he's made a number of duds, but even his bad films are the work of complete filmmaker who stays true to his own vision.

But as for criticizing the work of other artists, why is it so wrong for Altman to express his legitimate feelings about Titanic, American Beauty, or any other film? Everyone is a critic, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. In fact, as a verteran director who's worked in the business fifty-some years, I would think Altman's arguments have far more validity than the opinion of some everyday couch potato.

I think your beef with Altman being a bad sport has more to do with the fact that you guys don't like his films. I mean, "geek" sanctioned directors get in petty squabbles all the time, and no one's complaining about that. Is it a sign of bad character when Kevin Smith criticizes Paul Thomas Anderson? When Tim Burton knocks Smith? When PTA started a pissing match with David Fincher? All of those directors engaged in some rather public "bashing," but no one here is calling them "jackasses."

Chris in OC · 03-13-2002, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lex M
I mean, "geek" sanctioned directors get in petty squabbles all the time, and no one's complaining about that. Is it a sign of bad character when Kevin Smith criticizes Paul Thomas Anderson? When Tim Burton knocks Smith? When PTA started a pissing match with David Fincher? All of those directors engaged in some rather public "bashing," but no one here is calling them "jackasses."

Actually, I would. Criticism is one thing, but insults are quite another, and phrases "the most dreadful piece of work I've ever seen in my entire life" fit the mold of the latter. I've never thought of curmudgeons as charming and think much more highly of someone who maintains a professional air when talking of other people's work, even when criticizing them. This is the way intelligent critics approach a film, and I don't think it's too much to ask artists to do the same. If they don't want to, that's fine, but they shouldn't expect to have their word taken seriously if they choose that route.

Sam_Lowry · 03-13-2002, 01:35 AM

Altman such a jerk. What did he make good? If there is a director who is good, Roman Polanski is him.

Marq · 03-13-2002, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sam_Lowry
Altman such a jerk. What did he make good? If there is a director who is good, Roman Polanski is him.

Great insight into the topic at hand...

I have long admired much of Altman's work, and I would sincerely direct you to see his films, especially Nashville, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, The Player, Short Cuts, M*A*S*H, and others. So to answer your question that is what he made good (sic).

I generally ignore directors posturing with petty criticisms of one anothers work, as all I ask iss they make some entertaining, original films for many to enjoy, and Altman as well as the mentioned PT Anderson, Kevin Smith, Tim Burton, etc all do.

Quote:

"If there is a director who is good, Roman Polanski is him".

Yes he is good. I especially enjoyed Chinatown, Replsion, Rosemary's Baby, Knife in Water and Cul de Sac. I would say there are many more directors who are good.

Porkchop · 03-13-2002, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lex M
Is it a sign of bad character when Kevin Smith criticizes Paul Thomas Anderson? When Tim Burton knocks Smith? When PTA started a pissing match with David Fincher? All of those directors engaged in some rather public "bashing," but no one here is calling them "jackasses."

Yeah, I'd call them that. It's true that I prefer the work of, say, Fincher or PTA, to Altman. But I still think it shows a lack of class to trash another filmmaker in a public forum.
Another guy who does it is William Goldman. He is frequently a truly great screenwriter and he's definitely a character in his own right, but he's constantly trashing other people's work. I believe in one of his books he called Saving Private Ryan "as bad as films can get". Whatever you might have thought of SPR, that's just uncool.

Another anecdote... I remember an interview with James Cameron a while back where he got to talking about Independence Day (the movie, not the holiday). He started to say something about it being "lazy", then quickly looked embarassed and said something like "but, I mean, I don't mean to bash it... I enjoyed that film!" He's got the biggest ego in Hollywood and even HE knows not to bash other films.

Fluffmygarfield · 04-17-2002, 03:14 PM

Altman's got nothing on this guy:

http://www.beckerfilms.com

If you want to read some really bitter reviews from a director, go there.

Welles and Ford Fan · 04-18-2002, 03:03 AM

If I were a big fan of Altman's, I suppose I'd find a way to excuse his comments by saying "well-he's still a great artist, even if he isn't a graceful one". But since I find his films vastly over-rated, I am not inclined to do so. I have always thought it bad form for one "artist" to bash another's work. The advice of Thumper from Bambi comes to mind- "if you can't think of anything nice to say about somebody, don't say anything at all", or words to that effect.

It would be one thng if the highest grossing/most oscared (tied) film had been Black Knight or Deuce Bigelow, but Titanic is at least a great film when judged as an epic. Like most epics, it isn't subtle, but it is certainly epic, and deserves some kudos for its epic scope.

I remember reading an interview with Orson Welles, in which he said he felt that films were "not art but that they had the pretensions of art". Comments like those of Altman merely underline the word pretension in Welles' statement.

FilmFan16 · 04-18-2002, 03:15 AM

I have loved several Altman pictures (particularly Nashville and Short Cuts), but he definitely has NO room to talk about Titanic and American Beauty after that last piece of overrated junk he created. Gosford Blecchh is more like it.

:barf:

Dustin
DVD collection: http://www.themovieboy.com/directlinks/dvd.htm

Dehrian · 04-18-2002, 04:57 AM

Gosford Park was my #2 pick for best movie of last year. I saw it four times, and it was better every time.

Altman's entitled to his opinion. He's not going to win any Oscars talking like that, though. It's all a popularity contest, and when you tell voters that movies they gave Best Picture to are crap, they'll remember it. That's like telling your best friend that his wife is an ugly bitch. You may not find yourself invited over to watch football anymore.

Sykes · 04-18-2002, 07:03 PM

In these politically-correct times, I personally find it refreshing to come across an artist with Altman's candor. Is our perception of things so fragile that we cannot abide a confidently dissident opinion?

Welles and Ford Fan · 04-18-2002, 07:44 PM

In these politically-correct times, I personally find it refreshing to come across an artist with Altman's candor. Is our perception of things so fragile that we cannot abide a confidently dissident opinion?

No one disputes Altman's inalienable right to spout of how he pleases, with as much candor as he likes. Some of us are merely exercising our constitutional right to think of him as a jerk. I hope I didn't give the impression that he should not have been allowed to say what he did. I just think he's a jerk.

Lex M · 04-18-2002, 08:42 PM

It's of course your right to think of Altman as a jerk, and he very well may be, but I think this thread is another example of the rampant touchy-feely-ness among a lot of people on the File boards. I don't know why so many here are so pathologically afraid of conflict or negativity, but it's a bitter, unforgiving world out there, and to avoid confrontation and unpleasantness at every turn is unhealthy and unrealistic. If you guys get that rattled over Robert Altman making a crack about Titanic, how do you handle the squabbles, arguments, and catastrophes of day-to-day life?

03-12-2002, 08:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Porkchop Actor Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada	Robert Altman and Sour Grapes I've never personally cared much for Altman's films (except The Player, which I quite liked), but I didn't know much about the man himself. Now I've taken a dislike to him as a result of this little article: -------------- In an interview with Roger Friedman of FoxNews.com, Altman remarked, "Titanic I thought was the most dreadful piece of work I've ever seen in my entire life." He also had harsh words for American Beauty: "So badly acted and directed. But people like that." -------------- I personally love both Titanic and American Beauty far more than anything Altman has ever done. But even aside from that, you just don't go around publically bashing the work of other artists like that. I think it's a sign of bad character.

03-12-2002, 08:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cap'n Katanga Actor Join Date: Feb 2002	But Dr T and the Women was a work of Genius? The guys a jackass and he bears more than a striking resemblance to Colonel Sanders. I guess he's setting up his ego cushion for his inevitable loss come Oscar nite. Like "Look at all the pieces of shit that have won...I'm a TRUE genius." What a load a shite. Last edited by Cap'n Katanga : 03-12-2002 at 09:01 PM.

04-18-2002, 07:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sykes Actor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: The Voice behind the Voice of Reason	In these politically-correct times, I personally find it refreshing to come across an artist with Altman's candor. Is our perception of things so fragile that we cannot abide a confidently dissident opinion? __________________ "Editing is the foundation of the film art."--V. Pudovkin.

04-18-2002, 07:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Welles and Ford Fan Actor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston, TX USA	In these politically-correct times, I personally find it refreshing to come across an artist with Altman's candor. Is our perception of things so fragile that we cannot abide a confidently dissident opinion? No one disputes Altman's inalienable right to spout of how he pleases, with as much candor as he likes. Some of us are merely exercising our constitutional right to think of him as a jerk. I hope I didn't give the impression that he should not have been allowed to say what he did. I just think he's a jerk. Last edited by Welles and Ford Fan : 04-18-2002 at 08:18 PM.

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03-12-2002, 11:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lex M Actor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Los Angeles	Robert Altman is notoriously angry, curmudgeonly, and critical of mainstream Hollywood films, and that's part of his charm. Sure, his filmography is not beyond reproach, and he's made a number of duds, but even his bad films are the work of complete filmmaker who stays true to his own vision. But as for criticizing the work of other artists, why is it so wrong for Altman to express his legitimate feelings about Titanic, American Beauty, or any other film? Everyone is a critic, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. In fact, as a verteran director who's worked in the business fifty-some years, I would think Altman's arguments have far more validity than the opinion of some everyday couch potato. I think your beef with Altman being a bad sport has more to do with the fact that you guys don't like his films. I mean, "geek" sanctioned directors get in petty squabbles all the time, and no one's complaining about that. Is it a sign of bad character when Kevin Smith criticizes Paul Thomas Anderson? When Tim Burton knocks Smith? When PTA started a pissing match with David Fincher? All of those directors engaged in some rather public "bashing," but no one here is calling them "jackasses."

03-13-2002, 01:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sam_Lowry Actor Join Date: Feb 2002	Altman such a jerk. What did he make good? If there is a director who is good, Roman Polanski is him.

04-17-2002, 03:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fluffmygarfield Actor Join Date: Oct 2001	Altman's got nothing on this guy: http://www.beckerfilms.com If you want to read some really bitter reviews from a director, go there.

04-18-2002, 03:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
Welles and Ford Fan Actor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston, TX USA	If I were a big fan of Altman's, I suppose I'd find a way to excuse his comments by saying "well-he's still a great artist, even if he isn't a graceful one". But since I find his films vastly over-rated, I am not inclined to do so. I have always thought it bad form for one "artist" to bash another's work. The advice of Thumper from Bambi comes to mind- "if you can't think of anything nice to say about somebody, don't say anything at all", or words to that effect. It would be one thng if the highest grossing/most oscared (tied) film had been Black Knight or Deuce Bigelow, but Titanic is at least a great film when judged as an epic. Like most epics, it isn't subtle, but it is certainly epic, and deserves some kudos for its epic scope. I remember reading an interview with Orson Welles, in which he said he felt that films were "not art but that they had the pretensions of art". Comments like those of Altman merely underline the word pretension in Welles' statement.

04-18-2002, 03:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
FilmFan16 Actor Join Date: Feb 2002	I have loved several Altman pictures (particularly Nashville and Short Cuts), but he definitely has NO room to talk about Titanic and American Beauty after that last piece of overrated junk he created. Gosford Blecchh is more like it. :barf: Dustin DVD collection: http://www.themovieboy.com/directlinks/dvd.htm

04-18-2002, 04:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
Dehrian Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA	Gosford Park was my #2 pick for best movie of last year. I saw it four times, and it was better every time. Altman's entitled to his opinion. He's not going to win any Oscars talking like that, though. It's all a popularity contest, and when you tell voters that movies they gave Best Picture to are crap, they'll remember it. That's like telling your best friend that his wife is an ugly bitch. You may not find yourself invited over to watch football anymore.

04-18-2002, 08:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lex M Actor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Los Angeles	It's of course your right to think of Altman as a jerk, and he very well may be, but I think this thread is another example of the rampant touchy-feely-ness among a lot of people on the File boards. I don't know why so many here are so pathologically afraid of conflict or negativity, but it's a bitter, unforgiving world out there, and to avoid confrontation and unpleasantness at every turn is unhealthy and unrealistic. If you guys get that rattled over Robert Altman making a crack about Titanic, how do you handle the squabbles, arguments, and catastrophes of day-to-day life?