1776 DVD Restoration - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

greg.shoemaker · 07-15-2002, 04:52 PM

Although I own the previously restored version produced for the Pioneer Special Edition laser disc release, I find the insertion of the color-corrected footage and once-thought missing scene in the new director's cut of the movie on DVD a wonderful event, yet I still prefer the LD cut. But does anyone know why the overture and exit music (and intermission intertitle) were cut for the new release? I began listening to the audio commentary on the DVD hoping to find an answer, but tired of screenwriter Peter Stone's retelling of the storyline and the cause and effect certain scripted actions or words had on emotions and decisions of the characters which, just by viewing the film on DVD were obvious. So perchance it is dicussed there. Can anyone help here? "Does anybody care?"

I must mention I prefer the laser disc audio commentary by director Peter Hunt (minus Stone) who details the making of the film in a very pleasant and clever manner. You can tell he enjoyed making the movie and was appreciative of the work involved in restoring the film to its original premiere length. His opinions are barely heard on the DVD.

I tried contacting SonyPictures.com to inquire about the music question, but my computer (a Mac) tied up whenever I reached their website.

Greg

Welles and Ford Fan · 07-15-2002, 05:14 PM

I have not had time to watch the new disc in its entirety, and have only listened to a few numbers and listened to a bit of the commentary. I, for one, do not miss the music before the overture and music after the credits. But I was glad, that, like the LD version, they resored the main title with its clever artwork.

I doubt that it is discussed in the commentary. I agree that the commentary was more interesting on the LD, though I have not heard it for some time. I seem to remember the director having more to say. In this new release, the screenwriter/playwright yaps on so often that director Peter Hunt scarcely gets a word in edgewise.

Until I watch the whole film, it will be difficult to see which cut I like better. I do miss that extra portion of "Piddle, Twiidle and Resolve" that was in the LD. I assume those verses were already cut from the "master negative", and were left out because it would have been too distracting to have work print footage mixed in with the pristine footage of the master (indeed, it was even jarring in the LD version). I suppose I will keep both versions-one for its completeness (the LD), even though it is rough-looking, and the DVD for its audio/video quality.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the artwork on the case sucks?

Chris in OC · 07-15-2002, 07:50 PM

I was gone for a while and have just been lurking lately, but I'll weigh in on this one.

On the whole, the DVD print is better, which is logical since so much of the LD was from discarded and faded film cuts (not negatives). However, I'm disappointed with the DVD and will be keeping my LD, for a few reasons:

1. Despite claims to the contrary, the DVD is poorly mixed, at least in the first 15-20 minutes. There's an obvious audio edit in the credits, probably to make up for the lack of the overture, and partway through, some of the instruments fade into the background. Further on, during "Sit Down, John," the Congressional chorus is dialed back so far that they sound like they're in the next room. Overall, the sound isn't as crisp as the LD, either. I tried the DVD in both 5.1 and Pro Logic, and got the same results both times.

2. Although Peter Hunt claims that the DVD version is the one he wanted in the first place, that's not what he says on the LD commentary. He notes there that cutting the second and third verses of "Piddle, Twiddle" and the reprise of "The Lees of Old Virginia" was Jack Warner's doing, not his. It's possible that the master negative they found didn't have these segments, but it would have been nice if they had noted that. These are two significant and poor cuts, in my mind.

3. The other cuts, while minor, do seem to help the story, and I miss them. The same goes for the overture and intermission music, which really gives the feel of a broadway musical. It's neat having the short missing scene after "Cool Men," but it's not enough to justify watching the DVD over the LD.

I'm glad to see this movie released on DVD, but I really wish they had stayed closer to what's on the LD.

Chris in OC · 07-15-2002, 07:53 PM

BTW, I agree with Welles about the artwork. It's not ugly, but it gives the impression that the story is all about Thomas and Martha Jefferson, which it is not. The original Broadway artwork (the eaglet popping out of the egg) or something else that had to do with the Declaration would have been more appropriate.

07-15-2002, 04:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
greg.shoemaker Supporting Actor Join Date: Jul 2002	1776 DVD Restoration Although I own the previously restored version produced for the Pioneer Special Edition laser disc release, I find the insertion of the color-corrected footage and once-thought missing scene in the new director's cut of the movie on DVD a wonderful event, yet I still prefer the LD cut. But does anyone know why the overture and exit music (and intermission intertitle) were cut for the new release? I began listening to the audio commentary on the DVD hoping to find an answer, but tired of screenwriter Peter Stone's retelling of the storyline and the cause and effect certain scripted actions or words had on emotions and decisions of the characters which, just by viewing the film on DVD were obvious. So perchance it is dicussed there. Can anyone help here? "Does anybody care?" I must mention I prefer the laser disc audio commentary by director Peter Hunt (minus Stone) who details the making of the film in a very pleasant and clever manner. You can tell he enjoyed making the movie and was appreciative of the work involved in restoring the film to its original premiere length. His opinions are barely heard on the DVD. I tried contacting SonyPictures.com to inquire about the music question, but my computer (a Mac) tied up whenever I reached their website. Greg

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07-15-2002, 05:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
Welles and Ford Fan Actor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston, TX USA	I have not had time to watch the new disc in its entirety, and have only listened to a few numbers and listened to a bit of the commentary. I, for one, do not miss the music before the overture and music after the credits. But I was glad, that, like the LD version, they resored the main title with its clever artwork. I doubt that it is discussed in the commentary. I agree that the commentary was more interesting on the LD, though I have not heard it for some time. I seem to remember the director having more to say. In this new release, the screenwriter/playwright yaps on so often that director Peter Hunt scarcely gets a word in edgewise. Until I watch the whole film, it will be difficult to see which cut I like better. I do miss that extra portion of "Piddle, Twiidle and Resolve" that was in the LD. I assume those verses were already cut from the "master negative", and were left out because it would have been too distracting to have work print footage mixed in with the pristine footage of the master (indeed, it was even jarring in the LD version). I suppose I will keep both versions-one for its completeness (the LD), even though it is rough-looking, and the DVD for its audio/video quality. Also, am I the only one who thinks the artwork on the case sucks?

07-15-2002, 07:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Chris in OC Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: So Cal	I was gone for a while and have just been lurking lately, but I'll weigh in on this one. On the whole, the DVD print is better, which is logical since so much of the LD was from discarded and faded film cuts (not negatives). However, I'm disappointed with the DVD and will be keeping my LD, for a few reasons: 1. Despite claims to the contrary, the DVD is poorly mixed, at least in the first 15-20 minutes. There's an obvious audio edit in the credits, probably to make up for the lack of the overture, and partway through, some of the instruments fade into the background. Further on, during "Sit Down, John," the Congressional chorus is dialed back so far that they sound like they're in the next room. Overall, the sound isn't as crisp as the LD, either. I tried the DVD in both 5.1 and Pro Logic, and got the same results both times. 2. Although Peter Hunt claims that the DVD version is the one he wanted in the first place, that's not what he says on the LD commentary. He notes there that cutting the second and third verses of "Piddle, Twiddle" and the reprise of "The Lees of Old Virginia" was Jack Warner's doing, not his. It's possible that the master negative they found didn't have these segments, but it would have been nice if they had noted that. These are two significant and poor cuts, in my mind. 3. The other cuts, while minor, do seem to help the story, and I miss them. The same goes for the overture and intermission music, which really gives the feel of a broadway musical. It's neat having the short missing scene after "Cool Men," but it's not enough to justify watching the DVD over the LD. I'm glad to see this movie released on DVD, but I really wish they had stayed closer to what's on the LD.

07-15-2002, 07:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chris in OC Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: So Cal	BTW, I agree with Welles about the artwork. It's not ugly, but it gives the impression that the story is all about Thomas and Martha Jefferson, which it is not. The original Broadway artwork (the eaglet popping out of the egg) or something else that had to do with the Declaration would have been more appropriate.