Babylon 5 Review

[JDeMartino]

Part of me is afraid of the what Warners might do with a B5 movie

Nah, no need to worry. If a B5 feature were to be done anytime in the next 5 to 10 years it would mostly have the original cast. One of the advantages of its being a cheap, "nothing" little show to WB over the years has been that they left JMS alone to tell his story. The result has been that, much more than most TV shows, including Star Trek, B5 is one man's vision, and almost has to be approached that way. WB owns the show, and legally they can do anything they want with it, but they understand that there would be huge fan backlash if they were to do a feature film without JMS and the bulk of the original cast.

For his part JMS has always said that he viewed the big payday a feature film would offer as a way to reward the original cast for all their hard work. If they could do B5: The Motion Picture for a comparatively mosdest budget, WB would probably leave JMS alone to do the film however he wanted. Given what they were able to produce on the small screen in the way of week-to-week stories on a budget less than half of a contemporary Trek series (and TV movies for about the per-episode cost of TNG or DS9) imagine what the Babylonian crew could do with a budget of even 30 or 40 million (about what a romantic comedy goes for these days if it has a couple of "name" stars in it.)

Regards,

Joe

[CCKyle]

I'm glad to hear they were successful. I love B5 and I hope new people get to see the show

A little off topic, but I had to laugh at JMS during one of his commentaries. I always wonder what world he lives in, and his comment that people who ask him to compare Star Trek and Babylon 5 are rude just cracked me up. Like people don't compare NYPD Blue to Hill Street Blues, or Lord of the Rings to Harry Potter. JMS, that is life man! That is how it works.

[JDeMartino]

Like people don't compare NYPD Blue to Hill Street Blues

In fact, people hardly ever compare NYPD Blue to Hill Street or Homicide to Law & Order. They certainly don't devote entire websites to the "war" between two such shows, or argue that it is somehow wrong or disloyal for someone who likes Homicide to ever watch Hill Street. They don't celebrate one show by denigrating the other.

Also JMS didn't call the folks who ask him these questions "rude", he called them "tactless" - which is not quite the same thing. The lack of tact comes from their assumption that his show should and must be considered only in comparison to Star Trek - that Trek is the template against which all other SF TV shows are to be measured. Do book critics interviewing Dean Koontz always and automatically ask him how his latest novel compares to Stephen King's last book? Will the creators of the next cop show or doctor show be asked to describe their work in terms of Homicide or E.R.? (Or Columbo or Marcus Welby, for that matter.) Probably not.

The Trek question (or the Star Wars question) mostly comes from people who have no other frame of reference in SF. They don't read science fiction (except spin-off novels) and they don't watch much of it that isn't directly related to their particular favorite. Therefore they assume that everything they saw on Trek was a completely original idea, and anything that resembles one of those ideas must have been copied from Trek - because they are simply ignorant of how much Trek itself borrowed from the existing body of SF literature, and the rest of Human history for that matter. (This reached the limit of absurdity when someone on the newsgroup said that the concept of the "soul" as discussed by various characters in the B5 episode "Soul Hunter" was merely the Trek concept of the "katra" from ST III: The Search for Spock. Apparently this fellow had never heard of any Earth religions.)

You get tired of this kind of thing after awhile, and the whole "us vs. them" mentality it fosters. I'm not surprised that JMS mentioned it. To his credit he said that it was equally unfair to criticize Enterprise for not being more like B5. The point is to enjoy each work on its own terms.

Regards,

Joe

[C Roberts]

Also considering the fact that JMS has and will work with actors, and possibly behind-the-scenes people, from Trek (i.e. Walter Koenig, Majel Barrett, etc.) it would be rude and tactless of him to come out and say something to be interpreted as "the show you worked on sucks compared to mine".
I for one don't care if he does think that, but I surely would lose much respect for him if he ever came out and said it. And if I were him I'd also be annoyed if people constantly tried to put me on the spot for an answer when its quite obvious he likes his show better (having created it and all).
In the end Babylon 5, Star Trek, and Farscape are three completely different shows that defy direct comparisons. Its all a matter of personal opinion.

[aintnosin]

Originally posted by JDeMartino
(This reached the limit of absurdity when someone on the newsgroup said that the concept of the "soul" as discussed by various characters in the B5 episode "Soul Hunter" was merely the Trek concept of the "katra" from ST III: The Search for Spock. Apparently this fellow had never heard of any Earth religions.)

Or the guy who chastisted JMS for using wrist communicators when the "right" place to put them was on the chest...like on Star Trek.

[samuelk]

Originally posted by Hollow Man
Let's not forgot the canceled B5 space simulator game for the PC. Man that would've been awesome.

-HM

http://ifh.firstones.com

It may not be "Into the Fire", but it's shaping up to be damn good.

Sam Kimpton
Newsie, FirstOnes.com

[CCKyle]

While you make some good points Joe, but I still totally disagree. If you read publications like Entertainment Weekly they compare television shows to each other all the time, espically Homicide and Law and Order when Homicide started to air. Or when there was three wrestling companies, people compared WWF to WCW to ECW all the time. When I worked for WCW, we didn't rip on customers or reporters that asked us about WWF, even though both companies and different audiences, and we put on a different style of show. That is going to happen when you have a product that serves a nitch market, like wrestling fans or sci-fi fans. Espically when there are not a lot of successful shows to compare B5 too.

They are natural comparisions since B5 was a successful sci-fi show, and so was Star Trek. I can completely understand why JMS would get annoyed.

Now the wars betweens fans is something completely different. That is just silly. But as a fan of both ST and B5, I compare the two all time time.

[aintnosin]

Originally posted by CCKyle
While you make some good points Joe, but I still totally disagree. If you read publications like Entertainment Weekly they compare television shows to each other all the time, espically Homicide and Law and Order when Homicide started to air.

In this case, however, it was like someone saying that
Law and Order was the "correct" way to do a cop show and if you didn't do it exactly like L&O, you were doing it "wrong."

[CCKyle]

That would be annoying, but that isn't what JMS was complaining about on the commentary. He said anyone that asks him to compare the two has no manners. I would agree that someone going up to him and saying 'hey ST is the only way to do it' would be rude, but asking him to compare and contrast the two is a normal thing that people do, IMHO.

[redshifter]

i watched the first disc of my b5 set, and i have a few comments and questions.

likes:
the sound: nice subtle 5.1 remix with deeeep bass on those low long synth notes.

anamorphic: it is great to see the film sections as they were intended.

problems:
grain: was this the best negative they could find?

effects shots: couldn't they at least pan the mat up a little so the tops of characters' heads aren't cut off in effects scenes? did they really lose the original computer files?

video: the film to video transitions were a little distracting.

question:
do we know if the studio will be addressing these problems for season 2 and up? also, will we be seeing a remastered season 1 someday?

[C Roberts]

Originally posted by CCKyle
That would be annoying, but that isn't what JMS was complaining about on the commentary. He said anyone that asks him to compare the two has no manners. I would agree that someone going up to him and saying 'hey ST is the only way to do it' would be rude, but asking him to compare and contrast the two is a normal thing that people do, IMHO.

I agree with JMS on that one. If people want to compare the two themselves that is one thing, but to ask him to compare is kind of putting him in a compromising position. There is a thing called professional courtesy that JMS understands and many fans don't. Basically you don't say bad things about other people/shows in the same industry unless you have a damn good reason. Its all politics and JMS isn't stupid enough to risk future jobs by upsetting people he may need to work with or for.
Not to mention its a stupid question. JMS created Babylon 5. Of course he likes that best.

[Hollow Man]

I just received my set from Amazon.ca yesterday and watched the first episode.

Although I haven't had time to compare them with the videotapes I have (I recorded the whole thing off of TV), I'd say that overall its quality is probably better. This is due to the fact that most of the live action shots seem to be much clearer than during the original broadcast. Some shots are softer and granier than others, but most are clear, even though there are scratches and nicks in the print.

The CGI stuff does appear to be softer and is undoubtedly not as clear as the original 1.33:1 presentation, all due to blowing the images up for a 16x9 presentation. I only own a 27" TV, so I'm not complaining too much over it. I never thought their CGI was the best anyway. I may complain more once I upgrade to that widescreen tube, or watch it on my computer, but right now it's fine.

With luck sales of the set will continue to be strong and Warner will continue to refine the quality of future sets. Right now, I'm simply happy to be supporting JMS by purchasing this.

Needless to say, watching the first episode right after last night's Enterprise just reaffirms how much better B5's writing and acting is.

-HM

[JDeMartino]

According to some posts I've read elsewhere the discs are causing DVD players and/or TVs/projectors that have separate modes for film and video source material to switch modes whenever a CGI or composite shot comes on-screen. This actually makes the images look worse than they should. The fix seems to be to change the setup from "auto" to "video" This elmininates the mode switch, which seems to add the "artifacts" which some reviews mention, but which many viewers (with older or cheaper equipment, like me ) have never observed.

Regards,

Joe

[Hollow Man]

I just read about this on the Warner Bros. B5 forums. I don't know much about what the "auto" feature really does. In other words, when it decides to switch modes and exactly what the effects of the different modes are.

All I know is that I got this set for about $46 USA shipped. That's about $2.09 an episode. Granted the transfer isn't LotR or AotC quality, but I'll gladly pay $2.09 an episode, considering I got to enjoy it for free originally. And that price tally doesn't include the extra stuff on the DVDs, which definitely has added value.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I think they beefed up the sound a bit, because it sure sounds cooler than the Gathering/In the Beginning DVD.

-HM

[JDeMartino]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I think they beefed up the sound a bit, because it sure sounds cooler than the Gathering/In the Beginning DVD.

The episodes were remixed in DD 5.1 The first DVD used the original broadcast Dolby Surround mixes.

Regards,

Joe

[Hollow Man]

My guess is they did more than simply remix the sound (which for this would mostly entail splitting the mono rear into two rear channels). Bass has a bit more oomph, especially when the jumpgate opens, so I imagine it's been reprocessed to some degree.

I watched the first four episodes on my TV, and also watched a bit on my computer. It is pretty apparent that any scene that has a CGI effect in it is noticibly blurry. It isn't too bad on my TV, because ther resolution on a regular TV is lousy, but on my computer it's very apparent. Too bad, really, because all the non-CGI stuff definitely looks much better than the original broadcasts, especially if you ignore the occasional speck or scratch on the print.

I hope Warner comes up with a better way of transfering the 4:3 CGI stuff to 16x9 in future sets.

-HM

[CCKyle]

I just bought an HDTV yesturday and the CGI looks awesome on it.

[JDeMartino]

Actually, the CGI looks better the further you get into the season, which would seem to indicate that the WHV guys got a better handle on it as they went along, or that the source material improved because the original CGI artists did the same.

The scratches and dirt on the prints also fall off noticably, so I suspect the S2 set will look even better than this one does, even if they don't substantially change their production methods.

Regards,

Joe

[Hollow Man]

I just finished watching disc 2, and I concur that the CGI seems better. Odd, because I doubt they changed the way they converted the scenes to 16x9 for disc 2.

But on my 27" TV, I find myself noticing far less that an FX shot is coming up that's merged into a live action take. On disc 1 you knew because the quality of the picture would change from sharp and distinct to soft and blurry. On disc 2 this change is much less noticible.

And the scratches, dirt, and noise is greatly diminished on disc 2. Which makes it far easier to appreciate that the clarity of the print really is superior to my VHS tapes.

Bring on disc 3!

-HM

[dvdjedi]

Watching the B5 DVDs makes me sad.

Hearing the opening theme brings back the memories of eagerly anticipating a new episode. B5 aired in various time slots where I live but eventually ended up on Sundays at 12 Midnight. I've liked many TV series over the years but no other one had me so psyched for each & every new episode, week after week & year after year.

Now when I watch them again & hear that theme, I realize that I'll never see another new episode of B5 ever again & that saddens me.

Well, there's always the hope that we'll see a feature film...

Now bring on Season 2!!!

[UFO]

I look at it a different way. Whenever I watch B5 now it's like seeing old friends on my TV...the characters are all so great. Londo and G'kar steal the show of course.