Buffy R1 v. Buffy R2 question - DVDfile.com forum for DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD

j45rpm · 03-05-2003, 01:10 AM

What are the differences between the R1 and the R2 Buffy discs? I know that the R2s are widescreen and hence not OAR, as well as the PAL speedup, but looking past those differences, is there any reason to purchase one over the other? I got the season 5 set today, and I really like the packaging, and the extras seem to be quite good. If I buy the R2 season four, is there any reason I'd find myself doubledipping for the R1s in June?

The Mobius · 03-05-2003, 01:51 AM

Here's a great comparison site.

Of course, it can't tell you much about unreleased disks (ie Buffy S4+).

RealmRider · 03-05-2003, 02:43 PM

I have Buffy Seasons 4 and 5 (R2) and Angel Seasons 2 and 3 (R2.) There is going to be one commentary on one of the R1 eps featuring Seth Green that is not on the R2 Season 4 release. All other commentaries/extras are the same. I'm personally not going to double dip and get the R1 release for one extra commentary.

Oh and Seasons 4 and 5 are OAR as transmitted in the rest of the world, just not the US. Even though Joss is the creator and says that 'opening up his shots for widescreen spoils the effect he was going for,' he can't speak for everyone else...Joss only directs 2 or 3 eps a season. Let me tell you that the other directors fully use the full widescreen frame to it's fullest. Joss can't speak for the 10 other people that direct eps during a season and how the frames are composed.

I would recommend going widescreen. It's a much more cinematic experience.

JeffKleist · 03-05-2003, 04:34 PM

I'm afraid you're quite wrong

Joss is the producer,creator, and showrunner of Buffy. HE and HE ALONE dictates the format in which the show is framed. I have seen many many examples from the R2 releases, from many different directors,ALL of which have dead space on the left and right sides. The network/studio asks that a 16:9 version be created, but Joss dictates the OAR.

The show is 1.33:1, the only reason why the show is broadcast and released 16:9 in Europe is because of the incessant whining of Joe Six-Packs, who because the show filled their screens on broadcast, want it that way now.

Season 6 very well may be framed 16:9 from the direct comparisons I've seen, and may very well be released that way.
Seasons 4 and 5 are 100% 1.33:1 OAR. I know of no movie that leaves dead space on the left and right side of their screen, therefore your "more cinematic" arguement is invalid

Angel S2 and up ARE intended for 16:9, as is Firefly.

Morticia · 03-05-2003, 04:36 PM

Welcome to the forum JeffKleist!!

...and where did you get your knowledge of all things frame-like in Buffy? I'd be curious to know...

JeffKleist · 03-05-2003, 04:52 PM

Studying the ways of Whedon for many a year

He has repeatedly stated in interviews, and especially in his commentary for "The Body" how he frames things. Listen to the section (when it comes out) where the paramedic is telling Buffy her mother is dead. Joss purposely made the frame tighter and tighter to introduce major claustrophobia (paraphrase) "..no room to maneuver". Unfortunately in the 16:9 version she's got 3 feet of solid space on either side of her to maneuver in!.

RealmRider · 03-07-2003, 02:14 PM

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you, JeffKleist. As someone who actually owns seasons 4 and 5 of Buffy and has sat down and watched both seasons in widescreen, not just comparing screencaps, the framing problems you mentioned are only present in Joss's episodes. Most of the other directors do use the full wide frame. Is there important information on the sides? Not usually, but allowing the frame to open up gives the characters room to breathe and the image doesn't feel as cramped. Furthermore, all the special effects shots are done in 16:9 (not zoomed in on a 4:3 source and stretched), so if Joss is the all powerful producer as you say he is (and I don't believe for a second that he rags on directors to compose for 4:3...what a waste of his time as a producer...there's a million other things he could be doing and how disrespectful to directors on the show) then the effects shots would be done in 4:3, surely, as was the case in Babylon 5 (which was shot both in 4:3 and 16:9 but the effects were only done in 4:3...not just CGI but live action composites...laser gun discharges and the like). The fact all the effects were done on 16:9 disproves your argument.

Again the quote you provided from Joss was in reference to one of *his* episodes, which I referenced in my original post. Show me proof from one of these interviews you mention that he is dissatisfied with the 16:9 framing from an ep that he didn't direct, and maybe I'll be persuaded by your argument.

Until then, I'll stick with Buffy in widescreen.

RealmRider · 03-10-2003, 06:22 AM

Just wanted to add this screen grab comparison from the episode Hush, which was directed by Joss Whedon, so people can decide for themselves whether or not they want Buffy in widescreen.

Unicorn · 03-10-2003, 11:27 AM

So now instead of a tight shot focusing on the menace of the 4 Gentlemen, you instead have a wide shot of some guys just amblin' down a street...again, it changes the intent of the composition.

Realmrider, I can guarantee you that I know that Jeff knows what he's talking about. He drastically understates his knowledge of all things Buffy/Whedon. But no matter, you have made a personal decision based on your own preference and are evangelizing it as the one everyone should adopt.

But I think this is the wrong place to discuss this. Consider that this is NOT the topic that "j45rpm" wanted to talk about in this thread! So, why don't we agree to disagree on the issue of Buffy's OAR and let the topic revert back to the discussion of OTHER differences between Buffy R1 and R2 releases.

J45rpm is probably quite disappointed that this thread has gone in this direction...

j45rpm · 03-10-2003, 05:35 PM

Well, it's not quite what I had in mind, but martycoaster and realmrider's responses were both very helpful, so I'm quite satisfied.

The Mobius · 03-10-2003, 06:03 PM

Well I was just checking the comparison site I referred to earlier and noticed that Buffy Season 3 (R1) lacks the "previously on Buffy.." intros that the other regions have.

Does anyone (Jeff?) know if this was Whedon's intention or if it truly is an error. I must say I had noticed the lack of such intros, but had assumed that it was before they started doing them. Maybe Whedon figures we don't need them if we're watching the episodes together on DVD?

03-05-2003, 01:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
j45rpm Actor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bethesda, MD	Buffy R1 v. Buffy R2 question What are the differences between the R1 and the R2 Buffy discs? I know that the R2s are widescreen and hence not OAR, as well as the PAL speedup, but looking past those differences, is there any reason to purchase one over the other? I got the season 5 set today, and I really like the packaging, and the extras seem to be quite good. If I buy the R2 season four, is there any reason I'd find myself doubledipping for the R1s in June? __________________ My DVD List at DVD Aficionado

03-05-2003, 01:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
The Mobius Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lurking	Here's a great comparison site. Of course, it can't tell you much about unreleased disks (ie Buffy S4+). __________________

03-05-2003, 04:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Morticia Administrator Emeritus Film Class Goddess Part-Time PRN Princess Panty Thief Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Devil's Point. Burn baby burn!	Welcome to the forum JeffKleist!! ...and where did you get your knowledge of all things frame-like in Buffy? I'd be curious to know... __________________ Nope, you really haven't lived until you've fed a naked Fire Dancer a S'more...cooked from her own flaming baton. I reject your reality and substitute my own! "Freeze dried moles. Price as marked." -- Nixon, Suicide Girl Last edited by Morticia : 03-05-2003 at 05:23 PM.

03-10-2003, 05:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
j45rpm Actor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bethesda, MD	Well, it's not quite what I had in mind, but martycoaster and realmrider's responses were both very helpful, so I'm quite satisfied. __________________ My DVD List at DVD Aficionado

03-10-2003, 06:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
The Mobius Actor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lurking	Well I was just checking the comparison site I referred to earlier and noticed that Buffy Season 3 (R1) lacks the "previously on Buffy.." intros that the other regions have. Does anyone (Jeff?) know if this was Whedon's intention or if it truly is an error. I must say I had noticed the lack of such intros, but had assumed that it was before they started doing them. Maybe Whedon figures we don't need them if we're watching the episodes together on DVD? __________________

03-05-2003, 02:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
RealmRider Actor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Paul, MN, USA	I have Buffy Seasons 4 and 5 (R2) and Angel Seasons 2 and 3 (R2.) There is going to be one commentary on one of the R1 eps featuring Seth Green that is not on the R2 Season 4 release. All other commentaries/extras are the same. I'm personally not going to double dip and get the R1 release for one extra commentary. Oh and Seasons 4 and 5 are OAR as transmitted in the rest of the world, just not the US. Even though Joss is the creator and says that 'opening up his shots for widescreen spoils the effect he was going for,' he can't speak for everyone else...Joss only directs 2 or 3 eps a season. Let me tell you that the other directors fully use the full widescreen frame to it's fullest. Joss can't speak for the 10 other people that direct eps during a season and how the frames are composed. I would recommend going widescreen. It's a much more cinematic experience.

03-05-2003, 04:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
JeffKleist Supporting Actor Join Date: Mar 2003	I'm afraid you're quite wrong Joss is the producer,creator, and showrunner of Buffy. HE and HE ALONE dictates the format in which the show is framed. I have seen many many examples from the R2 releases, from many different directors,ALL of which have dead space on the left and right sides. The network/studio asks that a 16:9 version be created, but Joss dictates the OAR. The show is 1.33:1, the only reason why the show is broadcast and released 16:9 in Europe is because of the incessant whining of Joe Six-Packs, who because the show filled their screens on broadcast, want it that way now. Season 6 very well may be framed 16:9 from the direct comparisons I've seen, and may very well be released that way. Seasons 4 and 5 are 100% 1.33:1 OAR. I know of no movie that leaves dead space on the left and right side of their screen, therefore your "more cinematic" arguement is invalid Angel S2 and up ARE intended for 16:9, as is Firefly.

03-05-2003, 04:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
JeffKleist Supporting Actor Join Date: Mar 2003	Studying the ways of Whedon for many a year He has repeatedly stated in interviews, and especially in his commentary for "The Body" how he frames things. Listen to the section (when it comes out) where the paramedic is telling Buffy her mother is dead. Joss purposely made the frame tighter and tighter to introduce major claustrophobia (paraphrase) "..no room to maneuver". Unfortunately in the 16:9 version she's got 3 feet of solid space on either side of her to maneuver in!.

03-07-2003, 02:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
RealmRider Actor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Paul, MN, USA	I'd have to respectfully disagree with you, JeffKleist. As someone who actually owns seasons 4 and 5 of Buffy and has sat down and watched both seasons in widescreen, not just comparing screencaps, the framing problems you mentioned are only present in Joss's episodes. Most of the other directors do use the full wide frame. Is there important information on the sides? Not usually, but allowing the frame to open up gives the characters room to breathe and the image doesn't feel as cramped. Furthermore, all the special effects shots are done in 16:9 (not zoomed in on a 4:3 source and stretched), so if Joss is the all powerful producer as you say he is (and I don't believe for a second that he rags on directors to compose for 4:3...what a waste of his time as a producer...there's a million other things he could be doing and how disrespectful to directors on the show) then the effects shots would be done in 4:3, surely, as was the case in Babylon 5 (which was shot both in 4:3 and 16:9 but the effects were only done in 4:3...not just CGI but live action composites...laser gun discharges and the like). The fact all the effects were done on 16:9 disproves your argument. Again the quote you provided from Joss was in reference to one of his episodes, which I referenced in my original post. Show me proof from one of these interviews you mention that he is dissatisfied with the 16:9 framing from an ep that he didn't direct, and maybe I'll be persuaded by your argument. Until then, I'll stick with Buffy in widescreen.

03-10-2003, 11:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
Unicorn Actor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: I am the only Unicorn there is	So now instead of a tight shot focusing on the menace of the 4 Gentlemen, you instead have a wide shot of some guys just amblin' down a street...again, it changes the intent of the composition. Realmrider, I can guarantee you that I know that Jeff knows what he's talking about. He drastically understates his knowledge of all things Buffy/Whedon. But no matter, you have made a personal decision based on your own preference and are evangelizing it as the one everyone should adopt. But I think this is the wrong place to discuss this. Consider that this is NOT the topic that "j45rpm" wanted to talk about in this thread! So, why don't we agree to disagree on the issue of Buffy's OAR and let the topic revert back to the discussion of OTHER differences between Buffy R1 and R2 releases. J45rpm is probably quite disappointed that this thread has gone in this direction...

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