Rocky and Bullwinkle transfer watermarked!

[JFelix]

Argh, this irritates me because I had read three reviews:
This one
This one
And most importantly THIS ONE.

The first two don't make mention of this, but the third one is correct. I figured that since two reviews against one, it wasn't true but it is: The 'Rocky and Bullwinkle' DVDs are watermarked with an annoying transluscent 'R&B' logo that pops up at the bottom right hand corner of the screen, as if you were watching television!

I'm returning my copy, I love the show, but I'm not going to put up with it. I'll also be bitching loudly at Classicmedia and Sony Wonder about this.

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by JFelix

Argh, this irritates me because I had read three reviews:
This one
This one
And most importantly THIS ONE.

The first two don't make mention of this, but the third one is correct. I figured that since two reviews against one, it wasn't true but it is: The 'Rocky and Bullwinkle' DVDs are watermarked with an annoying transluscent 'R&B' logo that pops up at the bottom right hand corner of the screen, as if you were watching television!

I'm returning my copy, I love the show, but I'm not going to put up with it. I'll also be bitching loudly at Classicmedia and Sony Wonder about this.

Thanks VERY MUCH, for the heads-up on this one !

It's bad enough we have to suffer through these "bugs", on our regular Tv viewing, but to do it here...................IT'S ENOUGH !!!!!!

It's interesting NO ONE was bothered with it...but you know what this means don't you ? EVERYONE "LIKES IT" ! EGOD !!!!

WHEN IS THIS "BUG" STUFF GOING TO STOP ! NOW IT'S INVADING OUR VIDEOS !!!!



NOTE: THE WORST OFFENDERS ARE FX AND SPIKE/TNN...IT TAKES UP HALF OF THE FRIGGING SCREEN AND HAS ANNOYING AUDIO, NO LESS !!!!! WHEN IS IT GOING TO STOP ?

[j45rpm]

Eh-I appreciate the headsup, but I bought it anyway. The "bug" is small enough that while I'm not happy about it, it doesn't outweigh my love of Rocky and Bullwinkle.

As for what mikenyc said, I do hate the FX "bugs". Not only are they huge, but that goshdarn sound of the scalpals scraping together is just NOT pleasant.

Originally Posted by mikenyc

Thanks VERY MUCH, for the heads-up on this one !

It's bad enough we have to suffer through these "bugs", on our regular Tv viewing, but to do it here...................IT'S ENOUGH !!!!!!

It's interesting NO ONE was bothered with it...but you know what this means don't you ? EVERYONE "LIKES IT" ! EGOD !!!!

WHEN IS THIS "BUG" STUFF GOING TO STOP ! NOW IT'S INVADING OUR VIDEOS !!!!



NOTE: THE WORST OFFENDERS ARE FX AND SPIKE/TNN...IT TAKES UP HALF OF THE FRIGGING SCREEN AND HAS ANNOYING AUDIO, NO LESS !!!!! WHEN IS IT GOING TO STOP ?

[mtcarmel00]

Hopefully other studios won't be looking at this set and thinking "Hey, let's try this watermark thing on our stuff!" Yuck!

[j45rpm]

And you know, the worst thing is that there was no reason for the logo. It wasn't even a company logo or an advertiser's logo--it was simply a R & B logo--can't people figure it is Rocky and Bullwinkle without the help?!

[mikenyc]

I'm just not purchasing this set, for the logo thing.

It's a little DUMB, for the logo on a home video, unless it's some kind of screening copy.

NO OTHER Tv show homevideos do this, so which Studio Moron(s) came up with this idea, and "why" ?

Let's track him/her/it "down", and give them our complaints !

[JFelix]

Originally Posted by mikenyc

It's a little DUMB, for the logo on a home video, unless it's some kind of screening copy.

NO OTHER Tv show homevideos do this, so which Studio Moron(s) came up with this idea, and "why" ?

Let's track him/her/it "down", and give them our complaints !

I have the old VHS tapes they released, (Staring at the tapes, they seem to be in order!) they weren't watermarked. And yes, they go by quickly, but my annoyance is high enough to return it on general principal.

And I didn't know who specifically to bug, so I went to the
Classicmedia.tv contact page and emailed both the public relations and home video departments about it.

Couldn't find any contact info for Sony Wonder on its page, though.

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by JFelix

I have the old VHS tapes they released, (Staring at the tapes, they seem to be in order!) they weren't watermarked. And yes, they go by quickly, but my annoyance is high enough to return it on general principal.

And I didn't know who specifically to bug, so I went to the
Classicmedia.tv contact page and emailed both the public relations and home video departments about it.

Couldn't find any contact info for Sony Wonder on its page, though.

I emailed EVERYONE on the Classic Media list, and gave them a link to view this discussion, here. If I get a personal response, I will post it here.

Now, EVERYONE, post your feelings about this...someone there, may REALLY care what we think about this.

What a radical concept !

[mikenyc]

Here's the first, of, hopefully, more responses....

From: Sasha Junk
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 5:14 PM
To: John Fraser; Tony Knight; Chris Gordon; Robert Mayo; Bob Higgins; Rick Penney; Brad Fazzari; Leslie Levine; Gary Hymowitz; Michael A. Wilcox
Subject: RE: "Rocky and Bullwinkle Complete Season One" DVD homevideo

Hi Mike,

We are pleased to hear that you are such a big fan of Rocky & Bullwinkle and appreciate your concern over the inclusion of a protective "watermark" on the programs. Unfortunately, over the past twenty years "No Goodniks" have pirated the Jay Ward library and sold unauthorized videos. Most consumers are unaware that these low-quality copies are illegal. Worse, consumers feel cheated because they are a poor representation of the original shows. More than one million dollars was invested by the Ward family to restore the film masters for Rocky & Bullwinkle & Friends Complete Season 1 and future Jay Ward releases. The watermark enables us to trace the source of the video masters to prevent future copyright infringement and piracy, and to protect the Jay Ward legacy.

Best,
Sasha

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by mikenyc

Here's the first, of, hopefully, more responses....

From: Sasha Junk
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 5:14 PM
To: John Fraser; Tony Knight; Chris Gordon; Robert Mayo; Bob Higgins; Rick Penney; Brad Fazzari; Leslie Levine; Gary Hymowitz; Michael A. Wilcox
Subject: RE: "Rocky and Bullwinkle Complete Season One" DVD homevideo

Hi Mike,

We are pleased to hear that you are such a big fan of Rocky & Bullwinkle and appreciate your concern over the inclusion of a protective "watermark" on the programs. Unfortunately, over the past twenty years "No Goodniks" have pirated the Jay Ward library and sold unauthorized videos. Most consumers are unaware that these low-quality copies are illegal. Worse, consumers feel cheated because they are a poor representation of the original shows. More than one million dollars was invested by the Ward family to restore the film masters for Rocky & Bullwinkle & Friends Complete Season 1 and future Jay Ward releases. The watermark enables us to trace the source of the video masters to prevent future copyright infringement and piracy, and to protect the Jay Ward legacy.

Best,
Sasha

It's interesting, that they don't have ANY faith in, current, DVD protection-encryption technology ! The logo thingy, must have been in the contract with the Jay Ward estate.

I'd love to get the sales figures tracking on this item.

[Hellboy]

Am I the only one that really doesn't care about this "watermark"? I'm so damn used it from TV, that I don't even notice. And more importantly, i'm usually too busy laughing my ass off to the hilarious antics of R&B to even care. Just my 2 cents....

[Disco Stu]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Am I the only one that really doesn't care about this "watermark"? I'm so damn used it from TV, that I don't even notice. And more importantly, i'm usually too busy laughing my ass off to the hilarious antics of R&B to even care. Just my 2 cents....

Aren't you used to panning and scanning from TV too?

Regarding bootlegging, this is a bunch of crap, because I, and anyone else, could bootleg these discs too without any issue, using freeware, at the same quality. Would take about 10 minutes to do and they know this. That email response is PR bullshit at its worst.

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by Disco Stu

Aren't you used to panning and scanning from TV too?

Regarding bootlegging, this is a bunch of crap, because I, and anyone else, could bootleg these discs too without any issue, using freeware, at the same quality. Would take about 10 minutes to do and they know this. That email response is PR bullshit at its worst.

Well, I guess then, the "PR bulls**t at its worst" is correct, and they DO have a legitimate concern to watermark !?!

[Ruined]

I assume what the PR release is attempting to convey is that when a disc is bootlegged professionally (silver DVD), it usually comes from a particular plant, which is identifiiable via serial#s or other marks on the disc itself. By watermarking the transfer, they are able to pinpoint that the pro bootleg company used this exact DVD set as the source for the R&B episodes (as opposed to taping them off TV, etc). Then since it cost them so much for the restoration, they could sue for much more money, plus they'd be more protected by all the recent digital copy laws.

[Disco Stu]

Originally Posted by mikenyc

Well, I guess then, the "PR bulls**t at its worst" is correct, and they DO have a legitimate concern to watermark !?!

Mike, the watermark means nothing precisely because if that is the determining factor between official and bootleg versions, I could just copy the watermarked versions and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[JFelix]

Originally Posted by mikenyc

Well, I guess then, the "PR bulls**t at its worst" is correct, and they DO have a legitimate concern to watermark !?!

Let's see... Has anyone thought 'Today, I would like to downloading rocky and bullwinkle episodes off the internet'?

Let's put their actions to the test!

*loads up Kazaalite, soulseek*

I'd use emule, but their search feature is buggy.

anyway, let's see:

Soulseek: Unless you mean the Nintendo video game they released in the 1980s, nope.

KazaaLite: Absolutely nothing.

...but while I'm here *downloads pornography*

Let's try Bittorrent! *loads up bittorrent site*

Well, I can tell you where to downloading Episodes of 'My Little Pony' but nope, no R&B&F.

Quite frankly, Rocky and Bullwinkle are a bit too obscure for bootlegers to go after. And if that's their main concern, why isn't anyone else doing the exact same thing considering ANYTHING runs the risk of bootlegging? (though something Weird video watermarks their etxra features.)

[georgep]

I'm still trying to figure out why in the great blazes Paramount "watermarked" the alternate ending to Godfather III. Was this EVER a security issue?

[newt]

I will never buy anything that I know to be watermarked. If I'm paying my hard earned $ for the product, I'm not paying for a watermark and I don't care if it's my absolute favorite show. This needs to be nipped in the bud.

[feldon23]

Guess these people have never heard of Digimarc. They could EASILY encode 1 frame every 10 minutes with Digimarc and even thru VHS copies, it can be detected. All without affecting the picture quality.

Not that anything should be watermarked, but if they are going to, why not do it digitally?

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by feldon23

Guess these people have never heard of Digimarc. They could EASILY encode 1 frame every 10 minutes with Digimarc and even thru VHS copies, it can be detected. All without affecting the picture quality.

Not that anything should be watermarked, but if they are going to, why not do it digitally?

A logo is cheaper....they're looking at the bottom line, unit cost, alot.

I'd like to see their research on logos ?

[RnB Fanatic]

GEt a life guys, the DVD is awesome. Some of you have obviously not left the house since Rocky and Bullwinkle first aired. There's a big world out there. Most people are starving in the world and cranky losers in America lose sleep over a watermark that appears on the R&B DVD. And anyone who blast emails a company in protest should be dragged outside ane bitch slapped for an hour. WHo does that? Yeah let me email all of Microsoft because I don't like the color of my Xbox. Or how about I send an email to the entire state of New Jersey and ask, "Why do you smell so bad." Look, do you want to see R&B on DVD? If you do, there's a little watermark, so what? DOes that make it so unbearable that it has to be returned? DO I leave a sporting event because some guy keeps making annoying remarks? Do leave a movie theater because someone is eating popcorn loudly? No put up with it and get on with life.

[hawkeye]

This might not be worth starting a march on Washington over, BUT the slippery slope idea is quite valid, if broadcast television is any indication.

We now have full-blown ADS covering the lower third of the screen, WITH SOUND, during certain television shows. This is CRAP, and it will not get better any time soon. Taking a firm stand on the issue and refusing to buy watermarked products is one way of voiceing our disapproval. What other option to we have? Tacitly accept the watermarks is essentially opening the door to all of the other crap already taking place on network TV.

Sadly, I really can imagine a future where Disney(or whoever) puts out a DVD which shows advertisements during the feature. That is sickening. :flush:

[mikenyc]

Originally Posted by hawkeye

Sadly, I really can imagine a future where Disney(or whoever) puts out a DVD which shows advertisements during the feature. That is sickening. :flush:

Everytime you see a product logo, more than likely, someone paid for it's placement in the media you are viewing. And they have been doing this in motion pictures, BEFORE, we all were even born, let alone "thought of" !

Unfortunately, the concept of watermarking is hundreds of years old, originating, some say, in the 13th century. This means, there is not only the custom of it's use for various media, but the legal, case law, behind it, for that long.

There is also research on whether people like it or not. Unfortunately, if you see it being used to any effect, there is SOME segment of the population, that doesn't care about it, or actually likes it...or it wouldn't even be employed to the extent that it is.

If my memory is correct, I read SOMETHING, saying that young males, actually LOVE the "bugs". But since statistics, CAN be used to "lie", it really doesn't matter what viewers think, let alone, "like".

If copyright holders feel THAT threatened by the prospect of bootlegging, they are going to use the most effective means to protect it, NOTWITHSTANDING, what consumers feel, one way or the other !