DVD ROT is here

I got a newsletter from dvdinside.de concerning DVD-ROT. He states there, that he bought "The Peacemaker" (RC1, Dual Layer, DVD-9) a few month back. He has now a massive problem to display the data stored on the second layer. When he bought it, there was no problem at all. He says that there is now a thin milky-like layer between the two DVD-layers.
read also this column: http://www.mindspring.com/~yerington/

Happy collecting
Michi

[Dominik Pfleghaar]

Yes, DVD rot is here! It's called SpectraDisc......

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Unca Dom, DDS-088
dominikpfleghaar@netscape.net
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It was a dark and stormy night

Great. Hundreds of dollars spent on RSDL discs and now they're all gonna rot to pieces... I think I'm gonna puke...

[jb523]

while the problem being reported is certainly with the disc, it is quite possible that some players are more tolerant to this than others. I have never experienced it. (hopefully I never will)

[Blade]

This actually popped up about halfway through last year.

I'm still not convinced this isn't a fluke.

DVD's have been around for almost three years now. WarGames has been around since 4/98 and Contact has been around since 12/97.

You also might notice that the article says that the "cloudiness" seems to happen mostly on the edges. Well dual layer discs start from the inside, work thier way out to the edge where the layer-change is and work their way back in.

That's right the layer change. Which has been known to cause a number of players a lot of headaches until they were upgraded to the latest firmware or repaired.

If DVD Rot with RSDL discs were really a problem you would expect to see a lot more complaints about discs not working.

After all, you see posts like this all the time in the Hardware forums of any DVD site. "XXX copy of this doesn't work in my player." Normally these are caused by player incompatibilities/defects and discs that have a history of problems/bad discs.

And even with these well known problems there really aren't that many complaints about bad discs considering that they sell millions of these things every month now.

As fanatic as we all are about our little silvery addiction, you would think that if there were a patter, people would be talking about it a lot more, or evertime a thread like this would pop up you'd expect at least a few people to chime in with their own personal horror story.

I don't see this and I read the hardware forums here and at DVDTalk pretty religiously.

I wouldn't get too worked up until there was some hard data to prove these kinds of claims. (Michi, please don't take this as an attack on you, this story scared the crap out of me when I first read it too.)

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-David

Blade you wrote: "
DVD's have been around for almost three years now. WarGames has been around since 4/98 and Contact has been around since 12/97.
...
...
That's right the layer change. Which has been known to cause a number of players a lot of headaches until they were upgraded to the latest firmware or repaired."


That doesn't explain the slowly deterioration of the DVD itself. When the guy who wrote the newsletter says, that he was able to watch the film at the beginning with no problem, but after a few month (or years) he has trouble to display the film correctly on the same DVD-player, this is no problem you can correct with a firmware upgrade. The problem is caused by not beeing able to read the data, because its shielded behind that milky-cloud. If the laser can't get trough that cloud, or is reflected somewhere else, you can't watch the film.
Surely the idustry sells millions of DVDs and almost nobody complaints. Perhaps this is a factory problem of some kind and only those DVDs are affected which are produced in that peticular factory. Lets hope its like this...
Michi

I've read about this problem, and from what I gather, its a manufacturing defect in a small number of layered discs.

I had heard of laser (LD) rot and engaged in some discussions on another board about the possibility of DVD falling victim. The general concensus (my interpretation) was that the oxidation of layers was sometimes caused by cracks in the disc, resulting from their rigidity and disc weight on the bonding. DVD's are more flexible and lighter and less likely to 'split', in the same way that CD's have proved to stand the test of time.

However, I have found that tightly fitting keepcase spindles can crack the centre of DVDs. If you look carefully, you can see a gap between the two layers of DVDs. This gap is only at the centre of the disc and i've seen it crack. I worry that this would be the start of the rot.

This fear was compounded by a recent problem (I posted a message here some weeks ago) with Elite's Evil Dead Collectors Edition. This Dual Layer DVD worked fine when I got it, but when I went back to it some 4-5 months later, I found the special features would not load, and the disc wouldn't launch on the player I always used. I tried the disc on a couple of friends players and they couldn't get the features to play successfully either. My conclusion is that the disc 'became' faulty over time. The disc was taken from it's case and used a handful of times, and there were no visible defects.

Victor.

I'll add this to the current DVD rot discussion:

I've recently got 3 Criterion titles that have problems upon purchase (7th Seal, Time Bandits and Andrei Rublev). My player is a Pioneer DVL-919. 7th Seal would not play. The other two would pixelate, skip and break-up the picture towards the last chapters. I couldn't play the trailer and scrapbook as well.

But these discs played fine on another player (tested on a Toshiba). I guess its something to do with the player sensitivity.
Anyhow, I'm awaiting replacements.

Mhaydn: Were they all dual-layer?

Monty, yes. They were all dual layer.
(7th Seal would not play at all, they other two titles pixelate and break-up in chapters on the 2nd layer).
I got replacements recently, and the same thing happened.
Then i got the Creative DXR3/6X - they play fine now.
BTW, they were from the same manufacturer - CinRAM i think.

You probably needed a Firmware upgrade for your player mhaydn

[Blade]

Originally posted by Michi:
Blade you wrote: "
DVD's have been around for almost three years now. WarGames has been around since 4/98 and Contact has been around since 12/97.
...
...
That's right the layer change. Which has been known to cause a number of players a lot of headaches until they were upgraded to the latest firmware or repaired."


That doesn't explain the slowly deterioration of the DVD itself. When the guy who wrote the newsletter says, that he was able to watch the film at the beginning with no problem, but after a few month (or years) he has trouble to display the film correctly on the same DVD-player, this is no problem you can correct with a firmware upgrade. The problem is caused by not beeing able to read the data, because its shielded behind that milky-cloud. If the laser can't get trough that cloud, or is reflected somewhere else, you can't watch the film.
Surely the idustry sells millions of DVDs and almost nobody complaints. Perhaps this is a factory problem of some kind and only those DVDs are affected which are produced in that peticular factory. Lets hope its like this...
Michi

Could be because I was wrong?

(I just posted this on another site and copied it here for simplicity's sake.)

Just happenned to my copy of Contact too.

Right after the layer change the title pixelates and has sound drop outs all the way through to the end.

However, Contact was one of the first RSDL (single sided dual layer) DVDs made (12/97) and it sounds more to me like a problem with the individual disc. I've had mine since July 2, 1999 (from Bigstar for about 7.50 + s/h, gotta love DVDTracker! )

The other title I remember this being a problem with was War Games which I've had since August '99. I just played the last 1/2 hour of my copy and it was fine.

I believe Enemy of the State was a pressing problem with a large batch of bad discs and unrelated to this problem.

Just did a search and here's the link to the site that started all of this. I really played this down when it came out too. I still think it's an isolated problem (as the only consistent problem I've heard of has been with Contact), but it still sucks.

Looks like LA Confidential may be suspect too (my copy of this also plays fine (purchased 4/99)).

Makes me wish I'd tried to use CDPlayright a few months ago. Anyone use this or something similar on their disc and not having a problem?

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-David
My DVDs and HT

[Locutus]

I got my X-files season one discs, and disc number four had rot in it as soon as it happened. I was naturally not impressed, so I bitched at Amazon for a while, and I eventually got a new set to replace the old defective one.

[Damian]

I don't generally keep up with which disks are RSDL and which ones aren't. Does it generally say on the back of the disk box if it is an RSDL format? I'd like to start checking my 230+ disks for this problem.

Thanks...

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-Damian

[Dominik Pfleghaar]

Thank god (or whoever is responsible for such things ) my copy of Contact and LA Confidential don't show any sign of degradation (optically, that is... I'll have to give them a test spin this weekend to be completely sure).

Looks like this was (is) a batch specific problem and doesn't affect the whole series.

Oh, btw, I bought both movies the day they came out, so they're that old as well.

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Unca Dom
dvdfile.com Administrator
pfleghaar@dvdfile.com

[This message has been edited by Dominik Pfleghaar (edited 06-29-2000).]

[GrizMD]

Damian --

An easy way to tell RSDL discs: Generally, RSDL discs are gold colored when you look at the surface. Single-layered discs are silver colored on the bottom (like audio CDs). This is due to the light refractive differences in dual-layered discs.

[P7A77]

As was stated (and ignored), this is more likely than anything just isolated flukes. I've had both Contact and LA Confidential for almost two years, and some of my DVDs were even sitting in the sun for a while (in the case, tho'), and I watched both recently and noticed no problems.

[Rock]

I agree with Blade and P7.

I was skeptical of this when it came up many months ago, and am still skeptical. None of my discs have problems, not even Contact and L.A. Confidential, and we have not heard about this enough to be anything but fluke discs or batches of discs. Whatever the problem is (if there is even a problem and not someone playing a practical joke to get everyone frightened), I don't think it is DVD's rotting as LD's did.


DVDFile.Com Administrator
TheGreatOne@DVDFile.com

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Guns don’t kill people, O.J. kills people.

[Damian]

LA Confidential and Contact are RSDL disks? I thought those two movies came out on DVD before they started producing RSDL disks.

Oh and thanks for the lesson GrizMD. I appreciate it.

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-Damian

[This message has been edited by Damian (edited 06-29-2000).]

[Chromy]

Nope, as one of the first discs to come out, Contact is indeed a RSDL disc... If memory serves me right it is at the plane on the runway scene.

Chromy

[Henry George]

Has anyone else experienced "DVD rot"?

this may simply be a fluke.

[Chromy]

I experience many problems with my player at the layer change... however, this is just as apparent in new movies (ala The Matrix) as it is in older movies. After the layer change, I'll get sound dropouts, pixelization, etc...

But I do have a first generation Panasonic, I believe that it is a laser focusing error

None of my discs, RSDL or otherwise look "milky". I'm not denying that there is a problem, however, I think that if there is, it is not going to be near as apparent as it was in LD. Very very small failure rate

Chromy

[Blade]

Given the small number of people who have jumped in saying "my Contact has gone bad too", I think it's safe to say that there was a bad batch of discs and I was just one of the lucky ones.

If anyone wants to trade my bad one for their good for research purposes, feel free to email me.

Depending on the disc and player, layer changes are usually pretty brief pauses. Some longer and more obvious than others.

Then there are simple player incompatibilties that can normally be fixed with an upgrade to the player's firmware. These are usually player specific and not as much of a problem with new players as with old ones. Like mine . (I have a Toshiba 3109 with a very early firmware version and I think I have a really bad menu problem with the DVD that came with the spec. ed. of Diablo 2.)

This problem with Contact happens right after the layer change and stays bad right through to the end (I skipped around).

Panasonics have had such a long history of problems that the HomeTheaterForum has put together a detailed description of the problems and potential solutions. Keep in mind, however, that most people are very happy with their Panasonics. They just have a higher than normal failure rate. Ie: not all of the players are bad, just more than there should be.

Still, with over 275 discs sitting in my house, it's a scary thought, isn't it?

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-David
My DVDs and HT

[Henry George]

I've also heard that not all discs play the same way in all players. Despite the 'standards' there are still minor incompatibilities.

[Wmowery]

Indeed, indeed.... Some titles will behave differently in different players, even different models from the same manufacturer. As for the DVD rot issue, my recollection is that there was a news report about 3 months ago indicating that a bad batch of the glue used to join the RSDL layers may result in some milking of certain titles, on certain runs of manufacturing for such titles. Among the potentially implicated titles was "The Peacemaker." That said, the problems with other titles could be the same glue problem, or merely a manufacturing defect. Overall, the error rate for DVD production seems pretty good... much better than software and/or standard hardware error rates...

Now excuse me while I go and examine my collection to see if any titles are rotting away....

Wayne