Black Actors Need More Non-Race-Specific Roles

[WAID]

Watching the Alien documentary about choosing a woman to play the part of Ripley even though it wasn't written with a woman in mind made me start wondering about blacks in roles not written specifically for a black actor.

There are some great black actors out there; it would be nice if they were given more opportunities to just act. Roles like the President in "Deep Impact" or CIA Director in the Clancey movies don't have to be white people and with the talent playing the parts it should never occur to the audience that this person is black.

It's hard not to think along race terms when watching stuff like Spike Lee films (which I guess is their point), or "Black Knight" or lines like "Always bet on black." In the right context racial references are perfectly okay but I'd prefer it be the exception rather than the rule. Try watching a black comic, and his/her stand-up almost always makes race a part of their act. I would think that commercial success would be helped by playing to a wide audience; that doesn't mean one has to compromise the quality of the material. For example, what's not to like about Will Smith and Eddie Murphy even if some of their movies aren't very good?

BTW, I also thought Halle's Oscar speech was useless.

Anyone think I'm way off here?

[Sid]

I agree. Many cried foul when Micheal Clark Duncan was playing the Kingpin, but could have any other actor done it right? A white guy that big comes across as A BIG SLOPPY FAT LOOKIN WHITE DUDE.
And I like your point about how race is always a factor with comedians. Thats why I liked Ralphie May from The Last Comic Standing. He went off about how people get offended over race, sexual orientation, but its still OK to make fun of FAT people. Which is true, minorities and gays have no problem bitching about how their offended by any, and everything, but its ok to make fun of fat people. Goes to show. Nobody is innocent.
Whoa, I read your thing. Concord, I'm in Antioch

[theta]

I definitely second this. As a director, I cast regardless of skin color; I'm just looking for freakin' talent.

[larphillips]

Unfortunately, the way the studio accountants work, for an actor that can "open" a film, there is only one Denzel, Will, Morgan, etc.

The sequel to XXX proves that Ice Cube can now be counted on to topline.

I agree, as a director, I cast based one the Best Actor I can get, regardless of race.

[wynterfire]

funny you mention that because that's why i stay away from any movie that headlines Martin Lawrence, Chris Rock, and any other black actor like them for that specific reason.

i don't know about you guys, but the issue of making a movie (specifically comedies) around playing up the "black" stereotype has gotten far beyond old for me. yea, at first, it was funny with Eddie Murphy type stuff in the beginning, but it's just not funny anymore.

i think some of these black actors are just making asses out of themselves at the expense of the whole "civil rights (or black steretype if you will)" thing, and are now just demeaning their whole "race" of people because of it.

does anyone think that some of them are holding back legitimately good black actors because of it? i do.

it's a shame that ANY race can't diversify into white/black/red/yellow etc. movies and enjoy them for what they are, and not just segregating themselves to a race specific movie.

i can't tell you how many times i've gone to Besy Buy, Blockbuster, Wal-Mart, etc. and seen a black person with ONLY black themed movies in their hands (not to say that i haven't seen anyone else like that, but it is mostly with black people). that's what leads me to believe (again on the black example) that there is a major amount of segregation with movies and the actors in them.

i remember seeing Men of Honor in the theaters, and hearing a few black people in the back of the theater shouting at the screen stuff like "kill whitey" and "don't let that white fool tell you what to do" when DeNiro's character was putting Cuba down.

such a shame that some people can't get past that whole white/black issue and just grow up and realize that there is a whole world of good stuff out there if they would just open their minds.

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by wynterfire

i don't know about you guys, but the issue of making a movie (specifically comedies) around playing up the "black" stereotype has gotten far beyond old for me. yea, at first, it was funny with Eddie Murphy type stuff in the beginning, but it's just not funny anymore.

A very interesting, if a bit heavy-handed exploration on this theme can be found in Spike Lee's BAMBOOZLED.

[Harro5]

Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington are the only ones deserving of headline roles in any film...they are the best of the best in Hollywood right now.

But, the comedians mentioned often don't get race-free roles because they always mention their backgrounds. Watching a film like Undercover Brother, where race jokes pop up every two minutes, you begin to feel very uncomfortable. Would you choose Martin Lawrence, with his countless race references and whites-hate-blacks calls, over an actor like Jim Carrey, who uses inoffensive comedy to win you over, for your next comedy?

Denzel and Morgan are breaking down barriers, Lawrence and Murphy are happy to hide behind them...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Harro5

Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington are the only ones deserving of headline roles in any film...they are the best of the best in Hollywood right now.

I think it would be fair to add Samuel L. Jackson to this list.

Peace...

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

I think it would be fair to add Samuel L. Jackson to this list.

Peace...

Agreed!

Morgan Freeman Sings!!!!

[Frank Gunn]

I rather enjoyed Morgan Freeman as The Oracle in 'Matrix Revolutions'.

[Mr. McMinn]

Originally Posted by Frank Gunn

I rather enjoyed Morgan Freeman as The Oracle in 'Matrix Revolutions'.

I knew I recognized who was playing The Oracle. Who would have thought is was Morgan Freeman?

[Daniel Shock]

I've enjoyed performances by Dennis Haysbert (24, Far From Heaven) and Don Cheadle (Boogie Nights). Don is brilliant in Boogie Nights - he plays that part completely the opposite of how I would have expected it. He didn't play my stereotype of a black porn star. He was brilliant.

I think they could headline.

It happens more in theatre. Currently, the lead male role in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang the musical is being played by a black man.

[mikenyc]

There is a lack of confidence of the film industry in ANYONE who isn't a Star, or a Name. But for talented people of color, it's even HARDER.

To me, it doesn't have to do with a lack of qualified actors or stories being pitched, it's about a lack of confidence of the Corporate Suits Who Make The Decisions that Green Light films, in the audience, that the Audience will accept talented people of color.

The illogical reasoning of The Corporate Suits, is that the Filmgoing/Viewing Audience are just too stupid, and racist. What's happening it's the Suits who are racist and don't have faith that the Audience will accept talented people of color. This feeling isn't new, and is as old as the motion picture industry.

[Hayrab]

Originally Posted by Sid

I agree. Many cried foul when Micheal Clark Duncan was playing the Kingpin, but could have any other actor done it right? A white guy that big comes across as A BIG SLOPPY FAT LOOKIN WHITE DUDE.
And I like your point about how race is always a factor with comedians. Thats why I liked Ralphie May from The Last Comic Standing. He went off about how people get offended over race, sexual orientation, but its still OK to make fun of FAT people. Which is true, minorities and gays have no problem bitching about how their offended by any, and everything, but its ok to make fun of fat people. Goes to show. Nobody is innocent.
Whoa, I read your thing. Concord, I'm in Antioch

I think when you guys are seeing blacks in movies you are automatically assuming that the role was cast for blacks only. How do you know the directors at intentions? There could have been 100s of rolls that black actors acted that weren't written for any specific race. Im tired of hearing people complain about this, ultimately it is the casting and directors that choose who they want in the movie, if you dont like it, dont watch it.

Also, we all know its impossible for a white guy to be 6'7 350 and just be a sloppy fat white guy. Im 6'7 315 and have less of a gut than michael did in daredevil.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hayrab/fball.jpg

[trespoochies]

My vote goes to Don Cheadle. I think this guy deserves and can WELL carry a movie on his own. Recently he has definitely done non race-specific roles, but give him a good lead role and I know he will be able to deliver.
But I think a couple of resonses above state very well how I have felt about specific roles and movies catered to certain demographics. It just seems like advances to wipe out race-specific roles and movies are done in such small steps. Television is doing a little bit better, but not by much. But watching shows like My Wife and Kids and Bernie Mac make me feel confident that there are actors out there that simply do not want to be labeled in any steriotype. These two shows in particular have comedy that is very broad-based, in both cases comedies with family issues and themes. I think writing and actors can still express their own race and still send the message across other ethinicities that make everyone understanding and sympathetic.

[Marq]

Originally Posted by Harro5

Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington are the only ones deserving of headline roles in any film...

Yeah, all the other ones suck...

I actually don't doubt for a second that there's a few dozen other black actors "deserving" headlining roles in film today.
There is indeed a ton of black talent out there, but unfortunately there is also a ton of race-specified characters (though certainly not only) monopolizing their choices for roles it seems. But of course, nobody has to take a role they don't want...
I'll second larphillip's recommendation of Spike Lee's Bamboozled are an excellent exploration of this topic.

[Keith]

It seems like casting directors don't go anywhere other than rap/hip hop music circles when they decide to cast a black man/woman. 95% of them can't act a stitch, and I'm sure a LOT of talented black actors who actually study acting and chose it as a career path get pushed by the wayside.

[zoomgirl]

Wow, what a great thread! I must say I agree with you all wholeheartedly. My son (who is 13) and I were watching television last night when lo and behold a McDonald's "I'm loving it commerical comes on" They have some young black kid in a new school trying to adjust...so of course the commerical is in "rap" form as well as he refers to his school as his new "hood" or something to that effect. This type of crap pisses me off. I have made sure to point this out to my son as well so that he can be part of the solution...not part of the problem. Another commercial (for what I don't remember) came on with blacks in it...again with "rap"
I explained to him that when I was younger you only saw commericals targeted towards blacks while you watched "Soul Train" Then when they attempted to mainstream such commercials they were all in "rap" form. It's quite demeaning. Do you think that I won't understand if you speak to me in standard English?
I am black and I watch Fraiser and Senfeld (and gasp....I understand it! ) Heck, my son understands it! However, it saddens me to see how lily white everything usually is. Don't even get me started on Friends, where you barely see other ethnicites in the background...for God's sake they are in New York! I live in New York! It is more diverse than that! My son mentioned to me that he thought it was funny that in "Smallville" which is suppossed to be some small little town that he saw more diversity than in Friends.
So, I am that black person who will have more than "Black themed" movies in my collection. The reason is mostly that I find a lot of those movies to be crap. They are not my life nor my experience and if I find it to be demeaning (which a lot are) I am not going to support them by seeing them and certainly not by buying them.

[Surf Monkey]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Unfortunately, the way the studio accountants work, for an actor that can "open" a film, there is only one Denzel, Will, Morgan, etc.

Yeah, but think about Alien again. The studio accountants at that time didn't think that a woman could "open" an action/sci-fi film (ANY woman) but FOX took a chance and created the very first female action hero. Bean counters will always want to stick with the status quo. It's the creative visionaries who need to push the bounds.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by trespoochies

My vote goes to Don Cheadle.

I second this vote!

Peace...

[Welles and Ford Fan]

I just want to add: Martin Lawrence is not funny.

Carry on.

[aedavela]

Originally Posted by Surf Monkey

Yeah, but think about Alien again. The studio accountants at that time didn't think that a woman could "open" an action/sci-fi film (ANY woman) but FOX took a chance and created the very first female action hero. Bean counters will always want to stick with the status quo. It's the creative visionaries who need to push the bounds.

And if such a visionary was to make such a leap, it would only be done on a very small scale. I think one of the reasons FOX was able to go ahead with Sigourney Weaver as the lead in Alien was that it was a small film with a newer director and not a lot of expectations on it. It'd be hard to expect a studio to make such creative waves on a big money picture.

[trespoochies]

Originally Posted by Welles and Ford Fan

I just want to add: Martin Lawrence is not funny.

Carry on.

I think he deserves one chance at a movie with a GOOD script. I'm curious to see him attempt drama. Or at the very least a comedy that is half-way funny. This is one actor who seems to not even want to step outside the racial stereotype. I'm wondering if he has the confidence to step up and try a good acting gig.

[Surf Monkey]

Originally Posted by aedavela

And if such a visionary was to make such a leap, it would only be done on a very small scale. I think one of the reasons FOX was able to go ahead with Sigourney Weaver as the lead in Alien was that it was a small film with a newer director and not a lot of expectations on it. It'd be hard to expect a studio to make such creative waves on a big money picture.

Sure, but change has to start somewhere. Are you saying that the studios shouldn't even try?

[WAID]

I saw "Alien" at the theater (actually took a date!) and knew almost nothing about it. I was totally surprised that Ripley was the last crew member, and not because Ripley was a woman. It never crossed my mind about the female lead issue; the movie did a good job fleshing out the characters and you hated to see any of them wiped out. Period. I bought the tension and went with the flow.

And that's my point about black actors. Rather than the studio suits spending the money on "Black Knight" why not pull some great black talent from the theater, give them a chance to show what they can do with film roles as attorneys, doctors, and other professionals, and let the chips fall where they may. If they prove themselves, as with any other actor, let them have the leading roles. I can't think of a reason that "Speed" or "Die Hard" or "Kramer vs. Kramer" couldn't have been headlined by anyone of any race. The action flicks require a believable body type, but somebody like a younger Fred Williamson or Jim Brown (sorry guys!) in "Die Hard" would have been great and I don't think box office would have suffered as long as the lead pulled off the performance.

I totally agree with zoomgirl about the hip-hop marketing. How can we level the playing field of race if race is constantly an issue? The real black leaders in the community should be the people who work hard and succeed, not the people who cry foul all of the time. "Player" should refer to someone who dominates their industry, not some punk who perpetuates negative stereotypes.

We should look forward to the day that Halle just says "Thank you."

[Frank Gunn]

Yeah, do you guys really think that Don Cheadle couldn't be landing plum lead roles in indie flicks? He chooses to do big-budget studio crap like 'Swordfish' and 'Ocean's 11' instead. I mean, it's not like these poor oppressed black actors can't go outside the system here, where people are willing to take risks and just let 'em hang out there. Of course the big studios are averse to change. It's just the way it goes. Denzel made a name for himself with risky pictures long before he became a big-studio darling, and he was pulling in the Oscar nominations long before it was "cool" to nominate black people. Why should it be that much harder for anybody else? I honestly think Don Cheadle was well on his way to A-list status after brilliant turns in risky movies like 'Out of Sight', 'Devil in a Blue Dress' (an Oscar-nom robbery if I ever saw one), 'Boogie Nights', and 'Traffic'.

And if the Kingpin were a black character being cast with a white guy, people would've cried bloody murder.

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by WAID

And that's my point about black actors. Rather than the studio suits spending the money on "Black Knight"...

Simple math... it makes money.

[papibear]

Originally Posted by zoomgirl

Wow, what a great thread! I must say I agree with you all wholeheartedly. My son (who is 13) and I were watching television last night when lo and behold a McDonald's "I'm loving it commerical comes on" They have some young black kid in a new school trying to adjust...so of course the commerical is in "rap" form as well as he refers to his school as his new "hood" or something to that effect. This type of crap pisses me off. I have made sure to point this out to my son as well so that he can be part of the solution...not part of the problem. Another commercial (for what I don't remember) came on with blacks in it...again with "rap"
I explained to him that when I was younger you only saw commericals targeted towards blacks while you watched "Soul Train" Then when they attempted to mainstream such commercials they were all in "rap" form. It's quite demeaning. Do you think that I won't understand if you speak to me in standard English?
I am black and I watch Fraiser and Senfeld (and gasp....I understand it! ) Heck, my son understands it! However, it saddens me to see how lily white everything usually is. Don't even get me started on Friends, where you barely see other ethnicites in the background...for God's sake they are in New York! I live in New York! It is more diverse than that! My son mentioned to me that he thought it was funny that in "Smallville" which is suppossed to be some small little town that he saw more diversity than in Friends.
So, I am that black person who will have more than "Black themed" movies in my collection. The reason is mostly that I find a lot of those movies to be crap. They are not my life nor my experience and if I find it to be demeaning (which a lot are) I am not going to support them by seeing them and certainly not by buying them.

I didn't know you were a sista!

You married?

BTW, I agree with your POV.

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by papibear

I didn't know you were a sista!

You married?

BTW, I agree with your POV.

Easy big dog.... she's got some appeal for all of us here.

BTW, you of all people are who I was waiting for a comment about the EASY READER song link. Did you check it out yet?

[aedavela]

Originally Posted by Surf Monkey

Sure, but change has to start somewhere. Are you saying that the studios shouldn't even try?

No, stop putting words in my mouth. My point was change will be small and slow to come. Studios aren't going to take any more risks than they have to on their bigger, more expensive flicks.

[Blackbelt Jones]

Originally Posted by zoomgirl

Wow, what a great thread! I must say I agree with you all wholeheartedly. My son (who is 13) and I were watching television last night when lo and behold a McDonald's "I'm loving it commerical comes on" They have some young black kid in a new school trying to adjust...so of course the commerical is in "rap" form as well as he refers to his school as his new "hood" or something to that effect. This type of crap pisses me off. I have made sure to point this out to my son as well so that he can be part of the solution...not part of the problem. Another commercial (for what I don't remember) came on with blacks in it...again with "rap"

I couldn't agree with you more. Fast food ad campaigns... from Burger Kings' "Shaft Wants it His Way" to McDonalds idiotic "I'm lovin' It"... are by far the worst offenders. To quote Mike Roberts, president of McDonald's USA:

"Our 13,500 U.S. restaurants are uniting behind this new brand message and energy. We are focused on bringing the i'm lovin' it theme to life not only in our advertising but also for every customer who visits our restaurants. This world-class marketing strategy is the latest element of our overall plan to continue revitalizing McDonald's for our customers through compelling food choices, great service and restaurant operations, motivating value and exciting new restaurant decors."

What a load of shit. Maddox does a brilliant take on Mr. Robert's world-class marketing strategy. Below find some Maddox comix.

I DO see hope, however. Go back even a few years ago: I'll never forget an Old English ad that featured and "Off da Hook" party with everyone "Gettin' Jiggy." The tag line featured a black man saying how glad he was that "Things are back to the way they used to be."

Horrible.

But it is interesting to note the number of black actors in advertising campaigns where race is NOT an issue. Verizon ads with James Earle Jones or even those dumb 7-Up ads with their current black spokesman. In both campaigns, they are just spokespeople for the product... their race doesn't enter in to it.

That simply wouldn't have been possible a few years ago.

[elwood731]

Originally Posted by aedavela

No, stop putting words in my mouth. My point was change will be small and slow to come. Studios aren't going to take any more risks than they have to on their bigger, more expensive flicks.

I agree 100%. Studios are not going to take big chances on potential blockbusters. I mean, Independence Day was a bit of a risk with Will Smith, but I suppose they hoped that the concept would be bigger than the stars (which were B list for the most part). They tried to cast David Schwimmer in Men In Black before Will Smith. Can you imagine?

I think roles like the president on 24 are helping black actors become more recognizable. That guy is already doing commercials. I like him too. I would accept him in most roles, and the roles I wouldn't accept him in have nothing to do with race, just his personality.

[aedavela]

I'm pretty hungry, I wouldn't mind rekindling an emotional bond with some fries right now I just saw that McDonald's commercial, too. I wonder who the hell was in their focus groups to think this was a good idea.

[larphillips]

Does anyone remember the Pillsbury Doughboy rapping?
That was just sad.

[aedavela]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Does anyone remember the Pillsbury Doughboy rapping?
That was just sad.

Are you talking about the white guy in The Fat Boys? I though he was pretty good

[papibear]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Easy big dog.... she's got some appeal for all of us here.

BTW, you of all people are who I was waiting for a comment about the EASY READER song link. Did you check it out yet?

She's MINE, ya unnerstann? ALL mine!

Actually, I thought I had posted a response to the Easy Reader stuff you'd posted yesterday, but I guess I didn't hit "submit" on it, because it's not there now. Yes I did check out your link, and I loved it! I loved the Electric Company in elementary school and I actually miss seeing it. I had never heard of Fargo, North Dakota at the time I watched it, so the gag name "Fargo North, Decoder" didn't make me groan back then. But I still remember "HEYYYY YOUUUU GUYYYYYYYS!" Lots of good memories with that show. And Morgan was THE MAN (still is!). One of the first cool black guys I'd ever seen on TV (I didn't grow up around black people until junior high).

[Reese]

It's Batty the black bat -"batty batty batty batty."

Gotta love that bit from hollywood shuffle.

If Halle is not too busy maybe she can play Strom Thurman's daughter in the made for television movie named: I'm half black and my white daddy was a segregationist.

[Bossplaya]

I see no shortage of Blacks getting roles in Hollywood so I'm not sure why this thread ever came about. Yeah, there's a lot of direct to video crap staring rappers, and comedians that exclusively use stereotypes as a basis for its humor, but those aren't the only types of movies, nor do I think it's a too large of a percentage of movies.

There's a complete lack of good scripts which is the biggest problem, and that has nothing to do with race, and more to do with the corporate culture Hollywood has become. Less art, more about money. I get irked when people start suggesting that every movie has to serve some type of agenda to promote a group of people, whoever they may be. Also are you saying it's not ok to laugh at stereoypes, as long as you don't believe them to be representative of all people? You know, half the threads on this forum is talking about what I call throwaway and trash entertainment, so don't start knocking people for buying and wanting crap when you do.


Also, about the amount of rap in commercials...it is understandable that there's a lot of rap in commercials because rap appears to be the dominanant form of music for young people today. One of the only genre's of music that is increasing in sales. Not to mention, these commercials are not that far removed from the rap videos they emulate. So some commercials are embarrasing because they don't get it right, so what. That's no excuse to want all commercials featuring rap to dissappear.

[Surf Monkey]

Originally Posted by aedavela

No, stop putting words in my mouth.

When did I do that? I asked if I understood you correctly is all.

Originally Posted by aedavela

My point was change will be small and slow to come. Studios aren't going to take any more risks than they have to on their bigger, more expensive flicks.

Honestly, I don't think that there's much risk involved in casting black actors in strong, non-race specific rolls at this point. It seems to me that what resistance there is is more institutional than financial. There are much bigger potential risks to studios than casting black actors these days. I mean, if there really is a big inequity (Bossplaya makes good points in the above post) then what exactly is the excuse? In this context, that change should be small and slow to come is an odd idea given the very demonstrable advancements that blacks and others have made in the industry over the last few decades.

[WAID]

Originally Posted by Bossplaya

I see no shortage of Blacks getting roles in Hollywood so I'm not sure why this thread ever came about. Yeah, there's a lot of direct to video crap staring rappers, and comedians that exclusively use stereotypes as a basis for its humor, but those aren't the only types of movies, nor do I think it's a too large of a percentage of movies.

There's a complete lack of good scripts which is the biggest problem, and that has nothing to do with race, and more to do with the corporate culture Hollywood has become. Less art, more about money. I get irked when people start suggesting that every movie has to serve some type of agenda to promote a group of people, whoever they may be. Also are you saying it's not ok to laugh at stereoypes, as long as you don't believe them to be representative of all people? You know, half the threads on this forum is talking about what I call throwaway and trash entertainment, so don't start knocking people for buying and wanting crap when you do.


Also, about the amount of rap in commercials...it is understandable that there's a lot of rap in commercials because rap appears to be the dominanant form of music for young people today. One of the only genre's of music that is increasing in sales. Not to mention, these commercials are not that far removed from the rap videos they emulate. So some commercials are embarrasing because they don't get it right, so what. That's no excuse to want all commercials featuring rap to dissappear.