Studio High Definition transfer questions

[akrycek]

Hello,

I have a question about High Definition transfers that the studios have been doing. Frequently, you will see statements like "A new High Definition Widescreen transfer supervised by the director...", etc. on news of upcoming DVD's. I was wondering if this transfer is to the DVD's themselves initially or is it a new master that they will use to transfer to the DVD's with. I realise DVD isn't High Definition, so I know they will have to do a lot of compression when they transfer the film to DVD.

If this is a new master, does that mean all of the work is done as far as restoring the video and audio? Specifically, does this mean that they have a new master that is all ready to transfer to Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD or is there further work that they will have to do outside of the actual encoding to the new format?

I know those High Definition formats are not out yet, but I was just curious. Because if all of the work has been done for High Definition, we shouldn't have to wait a long time for those films to come out due to them having to be restored.

Just curious.

Thanks

Krycek

[Sycho]

it means they scan the film at 1080P/24 and downconvert it to 480i/30, i see no real benefit to doing it that way, but maybe if there is a scratch it is less noticeable because of the downconversion

[chipmac]

Sycho's right but the benefit is that when they need a HD master for broadcast or HD DVD it's already done. The bigger issue is whether or not they took the time to do a proper restoration. Most times they clean it up a bit but they'll never do a full on restoration like certain films get like Lawrence of Arabia, Robin Hood or Rear Window. They should be doing this for all of their HD conversions so that you not only get the higher resolution but a cleaned up, properly color timed and OAR cropped version as well.

[Sword of Whedon]

it means they scan the film at 1080P/24 and downconvert it to 480i/30, i see no real benefit to doing it that way, but maybe if there is a scratch it is less noticeable because of the downconversion

It's the old adage of "The better material you start out with, the better your final product"

[snipsnapsappy]

HDDVD discs will still take a long time to come out because:

A) the actual disc pressing process.

B) Studios do not like to food the market, so they will only release a handful of titles at a time.

Also, I am guessing that most discs will be featureless, even if they have feature laden DVDs, but that is another debate. That is just the way studios act, to get people to buy their product more than once.

[MEJHarrison]

Originally Posted by snipsnapsappy

Also, I am guessing that most discs will be featureless, even if they have feature laden DVDs, but that is another debate. That is just the way studios act, to get people to buy their product more than once.

I'm guessing just the opposite. If I already have the DVD, why would I upgrade to HD if the only difference is picture quality? I might for something that offers great visuals like Lawrence of Arabia, but I'll be much less tempted on something like The Breakfast Club. My enjoyment of that film would be little improved by a HD transfer. But if they load it up with bonus material (like they should have on the DVD), that might be enough to tempt me to buy it again.

[plissken99]

Well, another advantage, since the HD discs will be so huge, is uncompressed audio tracks. But yeah, some movies I'll keep on DVD. I'll try to limit myself to new titles, and just replacing those that will be incredible(Lord of the Rings, Matrix trilogy etc).

I'm glad studious don't flood the market, if they released everything at once, I couldn't keep un, and would spend 3 hours in Best Buy trying to decide which 3 of the 30 movies I want.

[Derb]

I can't wait for Hd-DvD players to hit the open market. ALL the space on them discs will be used for video & sound, nothing else. Why would you care to see extra's in high definiton?

[Sycho]

speaking of HD-DVD want movies are so good on dvd that you wouldn't want to get it in HD-DVD, I know that Indiana Jones trilogy looks dam fine same with super troops, and so on and so forth

[brttlt]

I know there is always room for improvement, but watching discs like T3, LOTR and The Matrix, really, HOW much better can it really get?
Those are just awesome looking movies!

[plissken99]

Just think about ultra High definition, which was recently devolped by the Japanese. It's 6 times uncompressed HD(which is 1920x1080), 18 minutes of recording used 3 terabytes!

A problem I've heard about the HD version of LOTR, is that it's so clear, Gollum looks a little too 3D, being that he's CGI. I remember the first time I saw HD, in a shopping mall. They had a 35in set recessed into a wall, with aquarium footage playing. At first I swore I was looking into an aquarium! The improvement will be more measurable by those with bigger screens(like my 120in display, it should be utterly amazing).

[Sycho]

Originally Posted by brttlt

I know there is always room for improvement, but watching discs like T3, LOTR and The Matrix, really, HOW much better can it really get?

for one, the matrix could not have nosie throught the whole movie

[Sycho]

Originally Posted by Derb

Why would you care to see extra's in high definiton?

the trailers in high def would be nice.

[Titleist]

My 2 cents here, but personally I'm not dreading the release of high definition dvds as much as i used to. I've got a moderately sized collection of DVDs now, I mean nowhere near the monstrosity that is Plissken's collection, goddamn man!

But like people have stated, most likely i'll collect the new releases and keep my dvds until prices come down and it becomes affordable to replace them. But some movies just won't benefit from that quality, you can't get blood from stone, and sadly even with restoration you can't make Casablanca look as good as Star Wars Episode 2 when it comes to clarity.

HBO HD isn't a good example because they crop the shit out of the OAR for movies, but has anyone gotten the chance to view Terminator 3, Dreamcatcher, or even Charlie's Angel's in 1080i? it's gorgeous stuff.

A good HD set will make great dvds look superb, but will really reveal the bad compression of a poorly made dvd. If i'm not being anal there are some scenes on the Superbits of a few movies that are absolutely sharp as a tack.

Trailers in HD would be nice, documentaries would also be really nice. The one thing i'm looking forward to is just making all the stuff besides the movie for 16:9, so that's why disks such as Master and Commander were a real treat to use, no fumbling with the tv's aspect ratio.

[NotaNumber]

It has always been my understanding that HD masters are being done now are for the reasons that chipmac has stated. Do it now so there will be a master ready for HD broadcast and HD-DVD when it is available.

Many films are in need of preservation and restoration so why not kill two birds with one stone?

[chipmac]

Originally Posted by Titleist

But like people have stated, most likely i'll collect the new releases and keep my dvds until prices come down and it becomes affordable to replace them. But some movies just won't benefit from that quality, you can't get blood from stone, and sadly even with restoration you can't make Casablanca look as good as Star Wars Episode 2 when it comes to clarity.

Actually anything ever film will benefit. Film has a higher resolution than even HD so even if you have a HD DVD of a 1920 silent movie you won't be seeing the full potential that is there on the film to see. Until now SD video whether it was from broadcast TV, VHS, Beta, laserdisc or DVD has held back the ability for us to see the detail that was originally film but we'll get closer to that with HD DVD. Let's just hop they don't take two steps back by over compressing and adding EE to everything.

[Titleist]

Chip, I understand completely. I've been able to get time on a Panavision 35mm camera during my experience in college, and shoot 35MM and Digital still photography almost daily, so I completely agree with you there.

What I mean is that some older movies will get more resolution in their transition to HD DVD, but as much as you can restore through digital clean it will still lack the clean pristine look of a movie shot today. I agree about distracting amounts of EE on older films though. Also, even a well preserved master from a 20's era film still hold up today? I don't know, but i'm interested to find out.

On a side note, HDnet showed The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly in HD, and the enhanced resolution really blew the film's graininess way out of control, so like DVD I think it'll all depend on how good of a compressionist you have working on the film.

[plissken99]

I always figured that was why certain DVDs are remastered from HD. So the studio could have an HD master on hand for broadcast and future formats. I remember copying laserdisc to VHS, the VHS copy looked as good as a retail tape. So the same must apply when downconverting from HD to DVD.

[Vigilante]

For the average Joe DVD consumer, this "HD mastering" is yet another marketing gimmick to promote double dipping.

[Titleist]

For average joe on the street, of course. I think the only dvds i've seen that defy that are the HD WMV discs like Terminator 2 EE, or Step into Liquid, which actually include a HD resolution transfer for HTPC's and what not.

But it's a catchy thing to say on the specs of your dvd. But as people are saying, I'm at least thankful they're getting around to mastering some of these movies now in HD rather than later.

[NotaNumber]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

For the average Joe DVD consumer, this "HD mastering" is yet another marketing gimmick to promote double dipping.

And it's also a way for the more informed consumer to know that the transfer was not from an older LaserDisc master as was the case with many early DVDs.

[akrycek]

Wow,

Thanks for all of the information. I will say first off, that I agree about being very selective about which titles I will repurchase on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. It is all going to depend on the title. I have a moderate sized collection, so doubt if I will replace the whole thing in HD. Most of my purchases will probably be stuff that I skipped on DVD that wasn't done to my liking as long as it's corrected by then. I'm mostly speaking of Full Frame only releases of Widescreen films. Hopefully, that won't be so much of an issue once HDTV comes into full swing. The rest of my purchases will probably be new titles once regular DVD is gone and old ones that never made it to DVD before it became obsolete.

So far, I'm more impressed by Blu-Ray than HD-DVD as far as the specs. and companies involved. But I know, the real test is going to be actually seeing and comparing the two formats up close. I wonder how many of same companies backing Blu-Ray are in the DVD +RW Alliance.


Thanks.

Krycek