FarenHYPE 911 definitely worth a view

[Cajun_Mike]

I cant believe how bogus Fahrenheit 911 was after seeing FahrenHYPE911 last night. I rented it on netflix and was shocked at the lies and distortions Michael Moore used in his propaganda piece. The professionals researchers and academics in Farenhype911 blistered Moore's film with facts. Farenhype911 is definitely worth a blind buy or a netflix rental.

[larphillips]

While I haven't seen either film yet, and it probably would be best for everyone to watch them both, I still expect this thread to get bombed to hell by the board Bush haters.

[Flash Ahhh]

Thanks for the heads up. I never even heard of FarenHYPE911.

I am going to keep my opinions and political views to myself, but I did buy Bowling for Columbine and lets just say...

OK, I am not gonna say it.

But I will watch both F~heit911 and F~Hype911.

-Flash

[bjh_18]

I already knew that a majority of Moore's claims in Fahrenheit 9/11 were unfounded (as just about anyone who attempts to follow world events and political issues from a neutral standpoint) and that a majority of film was merely just his opinion (which he is entitled to and many people seem to agree with). While still biased, Fahrenhype 9/11 presents many, many more proven facts than does Fahrenheit 9/11. It's also interesting to see many of the people who felt they were extremely misrepresented and had their words twisted in Fahrenheit 9/11, especially the elementary school principle from the school Bush was at when the planes crashed into the towers. Her take on why he stayed has always been the one that I hold and I admire him for staying with the kids. When those kids are old enough to realize what was going on, they're really going to appreciate what he did.

Now, that's not to say that Fahrenhype 9/11 is 100% truth. It's obvious that they twist Moore's words around to fit their attacks (in the same way that Moore did to Bush). But the movie does bring to light many clarifications that need to be made. I encourage everyone, whether they're interested in politics or not, to watch both movies and make their decisions for themselves.

[theta]

I haven't seen either, but I'm avoiding them both for the simple reason that I don't need to see either.

Bush is a corrupt, ignorant, incompetent sleazebag. Duh. I knew this during the first attempt to get him elected. I watch the news and read newsmagazines. I was fully capable of figuring this out.

Michael Moore is a man with an enormous ego who plays fast and loose with facts. Once again, duh. I haven't seen the man as anything more than a comedian for quite a while, certainly not a documentarian and certainly not somebody I'd trust completely.

[Squid Lips]

I watch the news and read newsmagazines.

That's a sure way to get your info screwed up

I did the same thing and watched both. Both were well done and entertaining, but Moore's was obviously more slanted and trying to "wow" you with his humor rather than his facts. Sure, both have agendas, but you can still have an agenda and be honest. I found HYPE to be a much more mature documentary and more factual, using less edits and witty writing to try and prove their side. They really laid several of the biggest premises of Moore's film to rest. It would be interesting to see if Moore has the huevos to respond to it.

I have always liked Moore previously but find his political leanings have taken over his documentarian skills more and "moore" with each project. They are less documentary and more propaganda. But taking that both DVDs have an issue, they are excellent to watch right before the election! But watch them together...

[limacharliewhiskey]

There is also Celsius 41.11, which is another rebuttal film against Michael Moore's statements. Haven't seen any of these movies, but I'm just know they're out there for those interested.

[Marq]

I cant believe how bogus FahrenHYPE911 was after seeing Fahrenheit 911 last week. I bought it at Best Buy and was shocked at the lies and distortions Alan Peterson used in his propaganda piece. The professionals researchers and academics in Fahrenheit 911 had the foresight to blister the ideas in Peterson's film with facts. Fahrenheit is definitely worth a blind buy or a rental.


And on and on and on this thread will go.

Haven't seen HYPE, but both appear to have their good and bad elements.

[Jellodyne]

Add to the list of F911 rebuttals 'Michael Moore Hates America' though I hear that one is actually a more balanced look at not trusting your sources on either side, despite the attention grabbing title.

[MooglePorn]

You could edit down Farenheit 9/11 to the 30 second clip of Bush saying "some people call you the elite... I call you my base!" and it would be just a powerful to me, personally.

[Marq]

Originally Posted by Jellodyne

Add to the list of F911 rebuttals 'Michael Moore Hates America' though I hear that one is actually a more balanced look at not trusting your sources on either side, despite the attention grabbing title.

As shocked that I am that the film has screened beyond his basement, it appears it's yet to reach beyond suburban St. Paul, Minnesota.

[bjh_18]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

You could edit down Farenheit 9/11 to the 30 second clip of Bush saying "some people call you the elite... I call you my base!" and it would be just a powerful to me, personally.

I found that the discussion of that clip is a centerpiece of Fahrenhype 9/11. Moore took it completely out of context and failed to mention that fellow presidential nominee Al Gore was seated about three seats over from Bush.

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by Marq

I cant believe how bogus FahrenHYPE911 was after seeing Fahrenheit 911 last week.

Haven't seen HYPE

So how can you judge if it's bogus if you haven't seen it?

[Mikado]

This is a good article from Factcheck.org (a non-partisan, non-biased site) It mentions F 9/11 and shows some of the things it leads you to believe

http://www.factcheck.org/article294.html

Everyone should do themselves a favor and read that.

Here's one part that really stands out for me:

Moore merely led viewers to believe -- but never actually stated -- that the bin Laden flight left while US airspace was closed. And viewers who listened closely -- very closely -- might have heard Moore acknowledge that the bin Ladens were in fact interviewed by the FBI before being allowed to leave. Here's the way Moore manipulated his viewers:

Moore (Fahrenheit 9/11): In the days following September 11th, all commercial and private airline traffic was grounded. The FAA has taken action to close all of the airports in the United States. Even grounding the President's father, former President Bush, on a flight forced to land in Milwaukee. Dozens of travelers stranded, among them, Ricky Martin, due to perform at tonight's Latin Grammy awards. Not even Ricky Martin would fly. But really, who wanted to fly? No one. Except the bin Ladens.

(video of plane taking off... song, "We've got to get out of this place") . . .
It turns out that the White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.

(video of Osama bin Laden)

Notice that Moore drops in the words "after September 13" without explaining the significance of that date -- the day airspace reopened to commercial traffic at 11am. Viewers were invited to believe from all that Moore said before that airspace was still closed, when in fact it was not. That's a false insinuation, but not a false statement.

Moore went on to interview a retired FBI agent who stated that "I think it would have been prudent, hand the subpoenas out, have 'em come in, get on the record. You know, get on the record." Perhaps, being retired, that agent wasn't aware that the FBI had interviewed the bin Laden family members. In any case, Moore didn't correct him.

Also did anyone else think that the South Park guys did the cartoon in Bowling For Columbine? I did, but then I was reading an article about Team America and Matt Stone was in there saying that they made fun of Moore in Team America because of the way he did that interview for Matt in BFC and then cut to the cartoon done in South Park style and Matt said it made it look like he and Trey did that cartoon when they didn't.

[Marq]

Originally Posted by Mikado

So how can you judge if it's bogus if you haven't seen it?

I'm not judging, I was just typing that polar opposite opinion as an example of how threads about such films generally devolve into both sides simply shouting their own opinion anyway.

Originally Posted by Mikado

Also did anyone else think that the South Park guys did the cartoon in Bowling For Columbine? I did, but then I was reading an article about Team America and Matt Stone was in there saying that they made fun of Moore in Team America because of the way he did that interview for Matt in BFC and then cut to the cartoon done in South Park style and Matt said it made it look like he and Trey did that cartoon when they didn't.

Never did I make that assumption. Matt & Trey's animation style didn't match that cartoon at all. The first I heard about this was in a recent interview with M&T in an entertainment mag. I'd never heard oif anyone make that assumption until just now either.

edit: came across this review today:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=12927

[UFO]

Originally Posted by larphillips

While I haven't seen either film yet, and it probably would be best for everyone to watch them both, I still expect this thread to get bombed to hell by the board Bush haters.

I'm a Bush hater, but I'm not about to sit here and defend Moore. I take his movies for what they are: slanted entertainment. To think otherwise is folly.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by Mikado

This is a good article from Factcheck.org (a non-partisan, non-biased site) It mentions F 9/11 and shows some of the things it leads you to believe

http://www.factcheck.org/article294.html

Everyone should do themselves a favor and read that.

Here's one part that really stands out for me:

Thanks for posting that. I DID hear Moore mention Sept 13 and didn't pay it any special attention outside of it being 2 days after Sept 11. After looking at Moore's "9/11 facts" page, I found this additional bit of info:

Originally Posted by Moore's 9/11 fact page

"Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.” Jean Heller, “TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.” St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004

I'm not sure who wrote the article cited above and where they got that information but this info is also missing from the FactCheck.org page you cited.

I think the FactCheck.org assessment is correct that the insinuation is incorrect but the statement was not.

In any event, this is in my rental queue and the title seems to be VERY popular right now so I'll check it out when I eventually get my hands on it.

Peace...

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by UFO

I'm a Bush hater, but I'm not about to sit here and defend Moore. I take his movies for what they are: slanted entertainment. To think otherwise is folly.

I fully agree.

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by UFO

I'm a Bush hater, but I'm not about to sit here and defend Moore. I take his movies for what they are: slanted entertainment. To think otherwise is folly.

Then I say bravo for actually thinking things through. Both sides are too willing to jump on the bandwagon of certain disreputable types if they happen to have a platform on which to speak.

[MooglePorn]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Then I say bravo for actually thinking things through. Both sides are too willing to jump on the bandwagon of certain disreputable types if they happen to have a platform on which to speak.

*cough*Hannity*cough*

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by MooglePorn

*cough*Hannity*cough*

Like I said, both sides. The right has just as many extremist whack jobs as the left and none of them are worth a hoot.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Then I say bravo for actually thinking things through. Both sides are too willing to jump on the bandwagon of certain disreputable types if they happen to have a platform on which to speak.

With this I certainly agree. I've already seen Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11 is currently at the top of my Netflix queue.

Peace...

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

Like I said, both sides. The right has just as many extremist whack jobs as the left and none of them are worth a hoot.

True, but Hannity is really entertaining to listen to. I just love that phone interview he conducted with some guy on the street where they talked about "Jim Kerny", the guy running against Bush for President.

EDIT: Sorry for the thread hi-jack...

Peace...

[larphillips]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

True, but Hannity is really entertaining to listen to. I just love that phone interview he conducted with some guy on the street where they talked about "Jim Kerny", the guy running against Bush for President.


Peace...

As is Michael Moore. The danger is when people stop listening to the extremist entertainers with an open ear and a sense of humor and start taking their each and every word as gospel.

[bjh_18]

Originally Posted by larphillips

The danger is when people stop listening to the extremist entertainers with an open ear and a sense of humor and start taking their each and every word as gospel.

Well said.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by larphillips

As is Michael Moore. The danger is when people stop listening to the extremist entertainers with an open ear and a sense of humor and start taking their each and every word as gospel.

Very much agreed....

Peace...