Varying aspect ratios on the same film?

mp3pir8 · 06-26-2001, 10:07 AM

I just got done watching the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" DVD, and I have a question.

How is it that the film itself is presented in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, but the trailer is in 1.85:1? I am beginning to understand the various types of film and framing, but this escapes me.

My only hunch is that the film itself was shot in Super 35, then the 2.35:1 frame was extracted for the film, and a 1.85:1 frame was extracted for the trailer.

Am I completely off base here?

------------------
Salsa shark. We're gonna need a bigger boat. Man goes into cage, cage goes into salsa, shark's in the salsa.
Check out my collection.

MK20 · 06-26-2001, 12:24 PM

It's simple really. The film is in 2.35:1 ratio and the trailer just has a cropped 1.85:1 picture, in the same way that companies crop the picture to 4:3 for pan and scan. It's just that they seem to prefer doing trailers in 1.85:1 ratio and no-one's going to complain about a bit being cut off of the sides of the picture just for the trailer.

Chris in OC · 06-26-2001, 02:42 PM

I would also guess that it's because 1:85 is the most common widescreen ratio. When you think about it, it makes sense to run trailers with those dimensions so theaters have a consistent ratio throughout the program, from trailers to film.

Disco Stu · 06-26-2001, 04:53 PM

And what about stuff like "Galaxy Quest", "The Horse Whisperer", and "Dr. Strangelove" which modify their aspect ratios during the film? Although I don't think that's true on the first two and their DVD's, you would have to see them theatrically. When I saw "The Horse Whisperer", I noticed it (about a half hour in, it goes from 1.85 to 2.35) and mentioned it to the manager who promptly gave me a free pass.

The strangest thing I've seen was on a Columbia disc I rented (don't remember which one), and there was a trailer for "Inventing the Abbotts", which according to the disc (I've never seen it) is 1.85, but the trailer played in 2.35. I believe that was also true of "Batman & Robin". I saw a scope trailer for it on a WB disc, although I'm pretty sure all the Batman movies were shot 1.85, probably so they can could be easily unmatted for video purposes.

------------------
Arrogance is bliss

saraswati · 06-26-2001, 05:31 PM

i suspect that the studios are putting out letterboxed trailers that are not in the right ratio, just because it's trendy. letterboxing makes the movie look more serious, it's like the commercial is saying, "this is such an important film that we refuse to crop it to fit your TV." but in reality it's a gimmick, not an appeal to movie lovers. they're letterboxing everything now, even commercials that were made to be shown on regular TVs. and, since they're only letterboxing for the effect, they can pick any aspect ratio they want. 1.85 doesn't leave very big black bars, so people with small TV's will still be able to decipher the trailer. but it's a common aspect ratio, and to people who don't know, it looks legit.

as for the "changing" aspect ratios, maybe the director or dp wanted to use scope in certain parts to give those parts of the film a certain feeling, but 1.85 for parts that didn't need the width and "feel" of scope. for instance, say you're making the film version of Lorca's The House of Bernarda Alba. in the play, the inside of the house is meant to be very confining and restrictive. you could use 1.85 for the interiors (this would be most of the film), but anytime the characters went outside you could shoot scope. it would get across the feeling of the openness and freedom of the outside world really well.

------------------
deep in the heat of the bush...

Blade · 06-26-2001, 06:10 PM

I'm not familiar with Horse Whisperer (though it sounds like it was a problem with the projectionist and not a decision by the filmmakers) or Strangelove (didn't see this one yet), but Galaxy Quest did something a little different with their aspect ratios.

If you remember, the movie starts out with scenes from the old TV show. These scenes were shown 4:3 in the theaters to similuate the TV viewing expereince. Then the film's perspective changes to the Galaxy Quest convention and the aspect ratio changes to 1.85:1 (your most common movie aspect ratio). Now, I didn't see this in the theater, but at some point (I think it's when the aliens first take Commander Taggert on their ship) it expands to the 2.35:1 aspect ratio (normally used for epics and big screen action flics).

On the DVD, they went from 4:3 directly to 2:35 because they didnt' think the effect would work as well on most people's smaller TV screens (as compared to the theaters' screens).

As for the trailers, as was already mentioned above, they just take finished film and either pan and scan it or remove the mattes to create a trailer of the size they want (anywhere from the original aspect ratio to 4:3-standard TV picture size)

-David

Disco Stu · 06-26-2001, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blade:
I'm not familiar with Horse Whisperer (though it sounds like it was a problem with the projectionist and not a decision by the filmmakers) -David

See http://us.imdb.com/Technical?0119314

and
http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0119314

It was indeed shot this way.

------------------
Arrogance is bliss

Taxi · 06-26-2001, 06:33 PM

The first movie I ever saw that did this was Brainstorm. Too bad the effect doesn't come across as well on DVD.

Blade · 06-26-2001, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Disco Stu:
See http://us.imdb.com/Technical?0119314

and
http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0119314

It was indeed shot this way.

I think it's neat when they do things like that.

Nice that you got a free pass out of it!

TheJeffy · 06-26-2001, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taxi:
The first movie I ever saw that did this was Brainstorm. Too bad the effect doesn't come across as well on DVD.

This is the one I was going to mention. It's interesting that the laserdisc I had kept the height of the frame the same, resulting in 'windowboxing' for the majority of the film while the brainstorm sequences filled the width. The DVD (I have the original MGM but I heard the Warner is the same) keeps the width the same so the image just goes taller or shorter. I think the laserdisc was more accurate to the theatrical experience but they probably feared people would complain about the windowboxing. LOL

Drexl · 06-28-2001, 08:46 PM

Windowboxing is necessary in some cases. I'm glad Disney windowboxed the segment "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia 2000.

By the way, I think that the reason why TV spots that are released before the movie hits theaters are letterboxed is because the transfers were done in a hurry, and they haven't had time to determine how and what parts of the shots that make up the film will be cut, er, panned & scanned for VHS and television release.

[This message has been edited by Drexl (edited 06-28-2001).]

Chris in OC · 06-28-2001, 09:00 PM

Curiously, although the regular theatrical run of Fantasia 2000 and the subsequent DVD are presented in 1.85:1, the IMAX presentation was 4:3 (or something very close) throughout because of the proportions of the IMAX screen. I remember wondering if the entire film had been shot at 4:3 when "Sorcerer" came up and matched the dimensions of the screen, albeit with a very small windowbox.

The 50th anniversary theatrical release of Fantasia was unusual in that it forced 4:3 on theaters. At that time, there was still considerable resistance among theaters to showing any film at 4:3, so Disney windowboxed the image on the prints to match the vertical dimensions of a 1.85:1 matte (I'm assuming that all exhibitors used the matte to fill the screen vertically). One of the Disney reps was quoted as saying "They're going to show it right or not at all."

[This message has been edited by Chris in OC (edited 06-28-2001).]

06-26-2001, 10:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
mp3pir8 Actor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Los Angeles, CA	Varying aspect ratios on the same film? I just got done watching the "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" DVD, and I have a question. How is it that the film itself is presented in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, but the trailer is in 1.85:1? I am beginning to understand the various types of film and framing, but this escapes me. My only hunch is that the film itself was shot in Super 35, then the 2.35:1 frame was extracted for the film, and a 1.85:1 frame was extracted for the trailer. Am I completely off base here? ------------------ Salsa shark. We're gonna need a bigger boat. Man goes into cage, cage goes into salsa, shark's in the salsa. Check out my collection.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-26-2001, 12:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
MK20 Supporting Actor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England	It's simple really. The film is in 2.35:1 ratio and the trailer just has a cropped 1.85:1 picture, in the same way that companies crop the picture to 4:3 for pan and scan. It's just that they seem to prefer doing trailers in 1.85:1 ratio and no-one's going to complain about a bit being cut off of the sides of the picture just for the trailer.

06-26-2001, 02:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Chris in OC Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: So Cal	I would also guess that it's because 1:85 is the most common widescreen ratio. When you think about it, it makes sense to run trailers with those dimensions so theaters have a consistent ratio throughout the program, from trailers to film.

06-26-2001, 04:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Disco Stu Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: New York	And what about stuff like "Galaxy Quest", "The Horse Whisperer", and "Dr. Strangelove" which modify their aspect ratios during the film? Although I don't think that's true on the first two and their DVD's, you would have to see them theatrically. When I saw "The Horse Whisperer", I noticed it (about a half hour in, it goes from 1.85 to 2.35) and mentioned it to the manager who promptly gave me a free pass. The strangest thing I've seen was on a Columbia disc I rented (don't remember which one), and there was a trailer for "Inventing the Abbotts", which according to the disc (I've never seen it) is 1.85, but the trailer played in 2.35. I believe that was also true of "Batman & Robin". I saw a scope trailer for it on a WB disc, although I'm pretty sure all the Batman movies were shot 1.85, probably so they can could be easily unmatted for video purposes. ------------------ Arrogance is bliss

06-26-2001, 05:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
saraswati Actress Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: New York City?!	i suspect that the studios are putting out letterboxed trailers that are not in the right ratio, just because it's trendy. letterboxing makes the movie look more serious, it's like the commercial is saying, "this is such an important film that we refuse to crop it to fit your TV." but in reality it's a gimmick, not an appeal to movie lovers. they're letterboxing everything now, even commercials that were made to be shown on regular TVs. and, since they're only letterboxing for the effect, they can pick any aspect ratio they want. 1.85 doesn't leave very big black bars, so people with small TV's will still be able to decipher the trailer. but it's a common aspect ratio, and to people who don't know, it looks legit. as for the "changing" aspect ratios, maybe the director or dp wanted to use scope in certain parts to give those parts of the film a certain feeling, but 1.85 for parts that didn't need the width and "feel" of scope. for instance, say you're making the film version of Lorca's The House of Bernarda Alba. in the play, the inside of the house is meant to be very confining and restrictive. you could use 1.85 for the interiors (this would be most of the film), but anytime the characters went outside you could shoot scope. it would get across the feeling of the openness and freedom of the outside world really well. ------------------ deep in the heat of the bush...

06-26-2001, 06:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Blade Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Oahu, Hawaii	I'm not familiar with Horse Whisperer (though it sounds like it was a problem with the projectionist and not a decision by the filmmakers) or Strangelove (didn't see this one yet), but Galaxy Quest did something a little different with their aspect ratios. If you remember, the movie starts out with scenes from the old TV show. These scenes were shown 4:3 in the theaters to similuate the TV viewing expereince. Then the film's perspective changes to the Galaxy Quest convention and the aspect ratio changes to 1.85:1 (your most common movie aspect ratio). Now, I didn't see this in the theater, but at some point (I think it's when the aliens first take Commander Taggert on their ship) it expands to the 2.35:1 aspect ratio (normally used for epics and big screen action flics). On the DVD, they went from 4:3 directly to 2:35 because they didnt' think the effect would work as well on most people's smaller TV screens (as compared to the theaters' screens). As for the trailers, as was already mentioned above, they just take finished film and either pan and scan it or remove the mattes to create a trailer of the size they want (anywhere from the original aspect ratio to 4:3-standard TV picture size) -David

06-26-2001, 06:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Taxi Admin Emeritus Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Orygun	The first movie I ever saw that did this was Brainstorm. Too bad the effect doesn't come across as well on DVD.

06-28-2001, 08:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
Drexl Actor Join Date: Jun 2000	Windowboxing is necessary in some cases. I'm glad Disney windowboxed the segment "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in Fantasia 2000. By the way, I think that the reason why TV spots that are released before the movie hits theaters are letterboxed is because the transfers were done in a hurry, and they haven't had time to determine how and what parts of the shots that make up the film will be cut, er, panned & scanned for VHS and television release. [This message has been edited by Drexl (edited 06-28-2001).]

06-28-2001, 09:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
Chris in OC Actor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: So Cal	Curiously, although the regular theatrical run of Fantasia 2000 and the subsequent DVD are presented in 1.85:1, the IMAX presentation was 4:3 (or something very close) throughout because of the proportions of the IMAX screen. I remember wondering if the entire film had been shot at 4:3 when "Sorcerer" came up and matched the dimensions of the screen, albeit with a very small windowbox. The 50th anniversary theatrical release of Fantasia was unusual in that it forced 4:3 on theaters. At that time, there was still considerable resistance among theaters to showing any film at 4:3, so Disney windowboxed the image on the prints to match the vertical dimensions of a 1.85:1 matte (I'm assuming that all exhibitors used the matte to fill the screen vertically). One of the Disney reps was quoted as saying "They're going to show it right or not at all." [This message has been edited by Chris in OC (edited 06-28-2001).]