Led Zeppelin on Wayne's World?

[Poidog]

On the laser disc, there was a small disclaimer that said that some music was altered from the theatrical version. One obvious change was the scene where Wayne plays the guitar and the clerk points to the sign, "NO Stairway to Heaven" (by Led Zeppelin). Most likely, the rights to play part of the song were not obtained so the most stupidest-sounding replacement was put in (this song doesn't even sound like Zep).

So I'm hoping that the original soundtrack (or songs) were kept in for the upcoming DVD release.

Maybe Cliff can shed some light since he's seen the disc.

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Aloha & Mahalo,
Poidog

[This message has been edited by Poidog (edited 07-06-2001).]

[saraswati]

hmm... well led zepplin isn't crazy about giving out rights. i'm not sure if they want a lot of money, or if they consider it selling out. but i remember last year when led zeppelin sold some stuff (and not even the good stuff) to Almost Famous, it was a really big deal. That might be why it was replaced on the LD (led zep. refused to renew the rights). So it really depends on them, not the producers of the disc.

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[Damian]

It wasn't just replaced on the laserdisc, it was totally replaced from all versions other then the theatrical. I know my VHS copy has him playing some other riff and I seem to remember the same thing happening when it played on cable. I went to the theater to see it when it first came out, and it indeed was the beginning of Stairway he was playing.

The same thing happened in A Nightmare On Elm St 3. Dream Warriors. In the beginning of the movie when Kristin is building the Elm Street house she is listening to the radio. In the theatrical release she was listening to Dokken's "Into The Fire", but it was replaced for all the video versions. I don't remember if it's back to Dokken in the DVD version.


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"They're us....we're them!"
-Damian

[Bowman]

There is an interesting Zeppelin song rights story on the commentary track for "Fast Times at Ridgemont High." Cameron Crowe discusses how hard it is to get the rights to any of their tunes.

[RBB]

This actually happens more than some may think. What we're talking about is called "synch" rights, which are basically the rights to use a song and/or a recorded version of that song in connection or "synchronized" with video or film.

Sometimes these rights are secured only for a certain medium, or presentation, or time. It could be that the producers failed to get the rights for video or television or the music publisher and/or record label would not give the rights for those uses. It also can be very expensive to use songs in movies, sometimes seven figures for one song.

Zeppelin is notorious for not licensing their works. It's interesting that the only two I know of with Zeppelin songs are Cameron Crowe movies. The commentary on Fast Times does shed some light on the topic.

Sorry for the nerdy answer, but I used to work in music licensing.

[Disco Stu]

Led Zeppelin also did this on the DVD/Video release of their concert film "The Song Remains the Same." They wouldn't allow their music to be heard, so the producers replaced it with an entire Yanni album.

I believe the music replacement also happened on the VHS and LD versions of "The Thing," where T.K. Carter is (ironically)listening to Stevie Wonder's "Superstitious." I have the LD and I believe they didn't replace it at all. Thankfully, for the DVD they got the rights back. Whenever you see a VHS/LD/DVD that says "Home video version, some music rescored," that's what it means.

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Arrogance is bliss

[reeltime]

So, what's the answer: Has anyone checked this out on the new Wayne's World DVD release?

Now that Cameron Crowe has relaxed the Zeps about licensing their music, I thought maybe they might have put it back in.


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Best,

Dave Kramer
http://fromscript2screen.com

[Scourge]

Hmmm... One, yes it's become common knowledge that licensing Led Zep songs is tough.

But Cameron Crowe actually doesn't have a hard time doing it because he has connections to the band. The commentary for Fast Times is great.

Two, Small Soldiers prominently featured a Led Zep song when the Barbies went crazy. So there ya go... Crowe's not the *only* one who can get the rights.

I remember the scene from Wayne's World. Didn't he just play the first 3 or 4 notes and then the "No Stairway" flashing light and alarm went off? I'd think they wouldn't need any permission for that. First of all, LZ doesn't own 3 or 4 notes played in any particular order and they don't have a song called "Stairway." But I'm no shaister lawyer either.

--Scourge .

[Dehrian]

Well, if there's a sign in the film that says the four notes you just listened to were from a Led Zeppelin song, that would be enough for a law suit.

That's funny, because I remember seeing Wayne's World about a year ago for the first time since it came out and when Wayne played that bit and the guy pointed to the sign, I thought, "What's that guy talking about? That sounded nothing like Stairway! Why didn't I notice that in the theater?"

[Drexl]

RBB, your nerdy answer is fine-no apology necessary. We need to understand just why Paramount can't release Grease on DVD even though the 25th anniversary edition was in theaters (and later on VHS and LD) in 1998, close to the time when Paramount started releasing DVD's.

You're apparently right about how it could be six figures. The director of Boys Don't Cry (Kimberly Peirce-God bless the IMDB) said on the commentary that Boston wanted a million dollars for "More Than a Feeling," so they used "Just What I Needed" by The Cars.

[Sid]

Dokken's Into the Fire is definately on the DVD. Since I got my boxed set, my friend became the biggest Dokken fan, kinda weird.

[saraswati]

Drexl -- I've heard it's because Olivia Newton John wants more money and Paramount won't give it to her. Of course i don't really understand why that would be an issue, because i thought residuals were mandated by SAG and weren't up for debate. and if she had net points or whatever, i'm sure there's some kind of protocol or precedent for that kind of thing, since as far as i know plenty of films where actors had points have been released on DVD without incident. I can't find any backup on this, and i got the info as gossip from someone else. so maybe i'm wrong.

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[manigrasso]

sara,

residuals may be true for her acting in the movie, but there might be disputes for her singing in the movie. Since many of those songs were released as singles, Newton-John might get residuals from the songs as well.

(devil's advocate mode on)

Let's say the stars of the movie get a cut from the soundtrack, & Paramount wants to include a "music-only" track on the DVD. Since having such an audio track might dip into sales of the soundtrack (which still gets tracked by Soundscan), Newton-John decides she should get a piece of each DVD, too, otherwise she faces a potential loss of income. Though I wouldn't know how much she still gets from the sale of the soundtrack.

(devil's advocate mode off)

[saraswati]

that could be it, mani. i know the grease soundtrack is still (after 20+ years) one of the top selling soundtracks. and if she thought some feature of the dvd would cut down on her soundtrack cut, she might make it an issue for the dvd. though i imagine she doesn't get much from the soundtracks (she didn't write the music, she didn't produce, and she's not really a major star). but most likely it's just silly star crap anyway...

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[RBB]

Originally posted by Scourge:
But Cameron Crowe actually doesn't have a hard time doing it because he has connections to the band. The commentary for Fast Times is great.

Two, Small Soldiers prominently featured a Led Zep song when the Barbies went crazy. So there ya go... Crowe's not the *only* one who can get the rights.

First of all, LZ doesn't own 3 or 4 notes played in any particular order and they don't have a song called "Stairway."

--Scourge .

Sorry Scourge, I didn't mean to suggest Crowe had a corner on Zep tunes, only that, while we both acknowledge the difficulty to secure their tracks, two projects with which he has been related had some success in doing so. Apparently, military cartoons have no problem with it, either.

And while I'm no "shyster lawyer", I can tell you that in fact LZ does, or at least can, own 3 or 4 notes played in a particular order. In fact, that's what music is. In order to prove infringement one only has to show access and similarity. Usually, similarity is determined if the "essence" (shyster's love those words, don't they) of the song is being copied.

For example, if you've ever heard Beethoven's fifth, you would probably agree that the first four notes (actually two notes, in four beats) ARE the essence of the work. It would be easy to acknowledge that anyone playing those 4 notes in that particular order was in fact playing the famous symphony. Anyone doing so without Beethoven’s permission would be infringing upon his work.

OK, maybe a bad example, because it's most likely in the public domain, but you get the point.

[billyslits]

So, is Led Zep on the new Grease... uh, I mean Wayne's World DVD or not?

[med]

It's funny... when I saw Wayne's world in the theater, I was only 12 or 13 years old, and while being a fan of Led Zepplin (only what I knew... the first 2 albums) I was not familiar with Stairway at all, and therefore don't remember the tune played by Wayne. But it was that scene that inspired me to go out and listen to more Led Zeppelin. By the time the video release came around, I was quite familiar with Stairway, and was looking forward to the scene. I was pretty dissapointed when Wayne played a tune that wasn't even close to what it was supposed to be.

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Apology Accepted, Captain Needa

[Rouge 2]

It's a shame, if Bonham were still alive, those greedy bums wouldn't be so money hungry.

I love Zep, but I don't want to hear about integrity, these guys need to come off their pedestal and realize they're just muscians.

[BathTub]

just a little blurb because its relates to WW and another key song to the movie,.. I remember seeing an interview with Mike Meyers saying he got to meet queen after the film came out and they actually thanked him for using the song, and his reply was 'thanks for not sueing me',... heh after hearing this about LZ maybe thats why he was a bit grateful about it

[RBB]

Originally posted by Rouge 2:

It's a shame, if Bonham were still alive, those greedy bums wouldn't be so money hungry.

Actually, they're giving up A LOT of money by NOT licensing their stuff. Especially since LZ would be in the 7 figure zone and that money is split down the middle with the musician or songwriter (unlike record royalties).

Synching is probabaly the most lucrative thing a musician does with their music today (especially since royalty money from record sales is becoming harder to come by).

Did we ever figure out if Stairway made it on to the disc?

[37]

Wow. All those posts and still no response. Well, the riff has been changed. However, the scene lasts literally 3 and a half seconds, so I don't think it's that big a deal. Wayne starts to play something that COULD be construed as LZ, and then the clerk points to the sign. Get over it, people.

[Scourge]

For the record, I saw the dvd today at the store and the disclaimer for some of the music being changed is on the back cover.

Just so you know.

--Scourge.

P.S. - Was there any problem using "Dazed and Confused" as a title for, um, "Dazed and Confused?"

[Wilson]

Originally posted by 37:
Wow. All those posts and still no response. Well, the riff has been changed. However, the scene lasts literally 3 and a half seconds, so I don't think it's that big a deal. Wayne starts to play something that COULD be construed as LZ, and then the clerk points to the sign. Get over it, people.

It does kind of kill a good joke. I've spent my fair share of time in guitar stores and you would be suprised how many people use Stairway to test out guitars.

[RBB]

Originally posted by 37:
Get over it, people.

No, no. YOU get over it.

[Poidog]

I just finished listening to the director's commentary and sure enough: They weren't able to secure the rights to the song, so she said it was pretty "balanced" to have four notes and a sign. I personally don't think it works. For once, I think they should have cut out that little scene. (Side note: I didn't keep track of how many times she said "like" or "y'know." )

Anyway, it's done.

On an unrelated note, the subtitles are a little off in one scene. It's the scene where the boys are in "blue screen Hawaii."

They and the subtitles say, "C'mon you wanna lay me." It's meant to be "lei" but sound like "lay." It's a semi-running dirty joke around here when we "lei" you (give you a lei around your neck) but it sounds like a sexual request. But how are you going to relay this joke in words? If you use "lei," it might not make sense. Anyway ...

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Aloha & Mahalo,
Poidog

[This message has been edited by Poidog (edited 07-16-2001).]

[eideal6]

poi dogg..... how do they spell out:
"mookalakahiki" or whathaveya

[Poidog]

"Muka laka hickey. Come on, you wanna lay me."

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Aloha & Mahalo,
Poidog

[med]

Another take on the joke could be that Led Zep is SO anal about their songs that they won't even allow them to be played in guitar stores....

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Apology Accepted, Captain Needa

[Chris in OC]

I remember reading that when they were making Mask they wanted to use Springsteen's records because the kid the movie was based on was a fan. But Springsteen wouldn't allow his records to be used in the video release, so they went to Bob Seger instead.

About the worst case of music substitution is on WKRP in Cincinnati. Hugh Wilson was adamant about using real songs for the show because it helped sell the place as a real radio station, and he won out over CBS's objections. For several years those songs even remained in the syndicated reruns. But more recently, for both reruns and video, all the songs have been replaced with generic heavy metal garbage.

[RBB]

Originally posted by Scourge:
P.S. - Was there any problem using "Dazed and Confused" as a title for, um, "Dazed and Confused?"

I have not heard that there was a problem and, while I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think a title is coprightable by itself, unless it can garner some sort of trademark status.

[luda-chris]

Allow me to answer. Yes, the 'fake' riff is indeed on the DVD instead of anything even remotely sounding like Stairway. I didn't know the backstory and I nearly choked when I was watching that scene.

[saraswati]

re dazed and confused -- you can't copywright a title, a name, or a phrase. now, if they had called the movie "dyer-maker" there might have been a little leeway. but with something like "dazed and confused", you just can't copywright it or sue or anything.

however, i had heard that richard linklater wanted to put the song "dazed and confused" into the film, but was turned down.

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deep in the heat of the bush...