Dancer in the Dark any good?

[Redux]

Hi. Is Dancer in the Dark worth getting? It looks like a great DVD package, but Im not sure whether its my kind of film- too weepy and girly are my first impressions!
Any views?!

[Marq]

Weepy and girly? No definately not.
Weird, and an acquired taste---YES.

Dancer in the Dark is a musical unlike any other musical. After watching it twice I still don't know if I'm sold on it. But it is certainly original. A very sad story with almost no humour.

Bjork is beautiful and brilliant an actress as she is a singer, and all the acting is great. The story is a tad simple, but it has some great directing.

Rent it first to see if you like it, and if you do you could buy it and paruse the great extras. Hope that helps.

[saraswati]

definitely rent this first, it isn't for everyone. i saw this last year in the theater, and i was not impressed. i thought the performances were ok, and i enjoyed the musical numbers. i wasn't too impressed with the way it was shot. the plot was melodramatic, and the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth. very mediocre.

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[Ambushbug]

I can't comment since I haven't seen it, but I'm sure Mahavishnu will be along shortly to tell you why it's just super.

AB

[egman]

I must agree with the rest of the posters here. This is one of those films that divide the audience. You're either going to love it or hate it.

I liked the bravery that von Trier had with his stylistic choices. However, on a deeper level I think the film might be a little hallow. It's feels more like a film about filmmaking rather than a film about the actual drama. This is the thing that really cuts the audience in half.

So once again, if you can rent it, this would be the best thing to do. We don't want you to blow your money on something you hate.

[KikuchiyoCM]

>I liked the bravery that von Trier had with his stylistic choices

Not really, as he'd used this same style for his previous two movies, nothing new in that department.

>It's feels more like a film about filmmaking rather than a film about the actual drama

Again, I'd completely disagree, whereas I wouldn't sport DITD as a top personal favourite (with Von Trier, his best in my opinion is Idioterne), the performances matched with the anti-musical vibe tell the whole story extremely well, and with for once, an admirable compassion, which lacks in a lot of modern films.

It certainly was a divider however, I think it's worth it, and it's not a girly flick that's for sure.

[saraswati]

hmmm, maha must still be banned, he got his "buddy" kiku to come in and explain for him...

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[Hendrik]

...hmmm...
http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/dancerinthedark.html

...or: one of the most wildly (and amusingly) overrated 'films' of recent times...

If the exact same movie had been directed by a 'Jake Smith' nobody would have even bothered with it - except perhaps to hold it up for well-deserved ridicule (at last year's Cannes film festival, the critic of the International Herald Tribune did mention that Bjork constitutes a 'quadruple cinematic threat: can't sing, can't dance, can't act, can't write music')...

But... many people think it's - if not the greatest movie ever made anywhere, at any time - at least the greatest Danish-made, videographed-in-Sweden (standing in for the USA), unspeakably tragic, incredibly heart-wrenching, widescreen musical chick flick starring an Icelandic pop star and a -quite famous and much admired- older French actress...

So... there you go!

. . .

[KikuchiyoCM]

>hmmm, maha must still be banned, he got his "buddy" kiku to come in and explain for him...

It's funny, you lot get all high rate when someone says they don't like some crap film that you all do, and then you find it hard to believe that there are actually people out there who like a film that you don't.
I mean wow, maha liked dancer, Kiku likes dancer, god, this must be some kind of conspiracy...

Anyway, I'm sorry, now i shall go and make a pointless list for you

Was there ever a DVD that you saw where the packaging was very slightly ripped in the corner?

1)...

I'm always getting moaned at by Taxi and all the other board owners to 'not go over the top' or 'insult' but when you lot do it, it's passable.

I liked Dancer yes, I said it wasn't a personal favourite, and when I feel the need to defend certain points about the film I will, and believe it or not, more than one person liked the film!!! SHOCK, SHOCK, HORROR (I see some people liked Charlie's Angels, haha, so what though!)

[Lightivity]

Stop the mean bashing Saraswati. I don't see the fairness in it.

I actually LOVED Dancer in the Dark, even though I'm not particulary fond of elevating experimental films as elitistic "art". I would rather see Jurassic Park five times than one Andy Warhole movie a second time. Just because Dancer in the Dark is made by a certain person with a certain reputation, doesn't mean it should be trashed automatically; every movie is worth at least one viewing. If one don't like it, tough.

[This message has been edited by Lightivity (edited 07-10-2001).]

[KikuchiyoCM]

Well, I'm trying not to 'bash' people as much as I used to, all I can say is that my preference in film is for 'art', that's not to say I can't enjoy something in the 'mainstream entertainment' category, to which I do now and again, but I prefer films which break rules, have a higher experimentation with mise-en-scene, especially when it comes to the 'shallow' characters movies whereby mise-en-scene is usually symmetrical in conveying the mood of the protagonist or characters etc, etc

I don't like this stuff because I'm told to, or because I want to be a part of a certain group of snobbish elitists, fuck that, I enjoy those movies because I do, basically, that's my choice, that's my taste.

Anyway, enough of the bad Kevin Costner speeches

[Taxi]

I didn't think that saraswati's comments could have been considered insulting. She thinks you're MV, I think she's wrong, but she's entitled to her beliefs.

I've stated at least a couple times on the forum that KikuchiyoCM is not Mahavishnu, but it appears that most folks around here consider what I say to be of little or no value.

(And now, to bring this tragically boring case of "who's who" back around to the topic at hand...)

I've not seen Dancer in the Dark, and I don't really plan on it. It sounds like the kind of movie I wouldn't get into. Maybe someday when I have absolutely nothing else to watch, I'll give it a rent. Who knows?

[This message has been edited by Taxi (edited 07-10-2001).]

[saraswati]

whoa -- chill out everyone.

the main reason i have my suspicions is that, often, when mahavishnu is mentioned, kikuchio will come into the thread and add his (her) 2 cents. though he/she rarely ever posts otherwise. also, if mahavishnu is around and there is some debate going on that he is on the losing end of, often kiku will come chime in that he/she agrees. and there has been at least once that mahavishnu was banned and, WITHIN HOURS kiku was on the scene, arguing the same point maha was before being banned.

kiku, if you are mahavishnu, whatever, i don't care. if you aren't mahavishnu, i don't care either. it was just a half joking observation. in fact, your reaction to my non-inflammatory post makes me think you probably are, due to a "the lady doth protest too much" kind of thing.

anyway, i honestly don't care whether you liked dancer or not, and i don't want to get into another argument about it.

i didn't say anything particularly insulting, either.

also, i have never jumped down your throat about disliking a film i liked, or vice versa. you are free to make your own choices and have your own tastes, it's no skin off my teeth.

in fact, i like an interesting debate far more than a silly list or complaining about trivial things like edge enhancement anyday. i was even starting to miss people like you and mahavishnu, because at least the heated discussions make life more interesting.

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deep in the heat of the bush...

[mahavishnu]

Dancer is the best film of the last ten years!

It's SUPPOSED to be melodramtic, but in a good way - putting the emotion and the drama back into 'art cinema'. Of course the film is also metaphorical, passing comment on the nature of the artist, and the nature of life in general. Nothing wrong with that.

Kiku - the 100 camera sequences have no prescident, and Trier pays great attention to mise-en-scene even in the handheld sequences. The film is not a rerun of Idioterne, then.

Dancer in the Dark IS a brilliant film...and the comments above about Bjork's lack of talent are way off the mark. She writes beautiful music and turns in a staggering performance in Dancer.

[1138]

Welcome to the forum harmolodic!

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1138 - DVD File Forum Greeter/Moderator
Professor of archeology, expert on the occult, and how does one say it? Obtainer of rare antiquities.

[Dominik Pfleghaar]

My GF went to see Dancer in the Dark and she kinda liked it, but she had to leave about 1/3 into the movie because she got sea-sick from the shaky camera. I'm not joking here.

Mahavishnu likes it and I hate Björk's music, so I wouldn't touch this movie with a ten foot pole anyway.

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Unca Dom
dvdfile.com Administrator
pfleghaar@dvdfile.com
My HT My dvd collection

[mahavishnu]

Yeah, Dom, you're right.

Stick with Anaconda, Analyse This, The Bone Collector, Cutthroat Island, Entrapment, Jumanji, Leathal Weapon 4, What Lies Beneath and all those othe "classics"...

[Adjuster]

Sorry Maha,

Putting a after taking a shot at Dom's taste in movies doesn't make it ok.

Anyone who's been here as long as Dom is surely aware of your tastes when it comes to cinema. Which is why he could say "If maha likes it, then I sure as hell won't." He wasn't taking a shot at your tastes, just stating that his are diametrically opposite.

So once again you prove to all of us what an arrogant ass you are, by checking dom's profiler list for targets of an thinly veiled personal attack on his tastes.

Give it a rest will you.

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"I've got a bad feeling about this...."
I AM JEFF'S DVD LIST

[mahavishnu]

He doesn't know 'the kind of movies that i like' because he hasn't seen any of them!!! If "Mahavishnu likes it so I wouldn't touch this movie with a ten foot pole anyway." isn't a personal attack then I don't know what is.

So take your double standards and...

[This message has been edited by mahavishnu (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Adjuster]

He doesn't know 'the kind of movies that i like' because he hasn't seen any of them!!!

Just because he doesn't have any of the movies "you like" in his collection, does not mean that he hasn't seen them.

No double standard here. I still maintain that Dom's comment was not a personal attack, merely a statement that he knows full well the difference between his and your 'taste' in movies.

[mahavishnu]

Oh that's right. I'm sure Dom has seen all the movies I like. Actually, I doubt he's seen even 5% of them. It's thus patronising of him to assume he understands my taste.

What you're really saying is that Dom can criticise the movies I like because he doesn't know what he's talking about so I'm umlikely to take offense. Whereas if I attack his taste in movies, because I've seen the films he likes and am coming from a more informed perspective, my comments are more likely to be upsetting, because they are more likely to be true!! Well tough - the truth hurts.

[egman]

Whoa, I thought this was a suggestion thread, not a debate.

Anyway, I want to reiterate my point. Dancer is an overall good film, depending on your taste. Personally, my only problem with it is is that it seems uneven. It seemed like a drama but really is more of an experiment in genre and dogme95 technique. Ater watching the DVD supplements(I did buy the film myself, so I do think of it as a worthwhile watch), I think this is how von Trier feels about the film himself.

I'll admit there is more compassion in this film compare to most modern fare, but it is overshadowed by the experimental nature of the film. To some who may not be observing the film more closely, this may look like von Trier is mocking the drama in the film, which I don't fell he set out to do.

So Redux, if you're still on the fence about getting the film, I think you should really think about type of things you look for in watching a film. If you're about experimentation, then I think you will enjoy Dancer. If you're not into experimental filmmaking, or are more interested in the drama of the situation, then this may be an uncomfortable watch. It will be smart of you to rent first.

[chlngr1970]

ENOUGH!!!

Why is it that every time Maha gets into a thread, it becomes a Maha VS everyone debate.

MV - Your general comments about the "trash" that mainstream Hollywood puts out and your campaigning for art film give everyone a good idea of what your taste is. Therefore, Dom saying if you like it then he will not is a safe assumption. That is a fact you have made VERY clear in the forum. So don't get all deffensive if someone makes a comment on your taste in film.

Adjuster - Please...In the future, if you are unhappy with a response by a member of the forum, email a mod or admin and let us deal with any problems. That is why we are here. It is not a good thing to flame a forum member, even if you believe they diserve it.

Thank you both for your co-operation.

j



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Co-Moderator
Software Forum
~Rather than question the wisdom, question your own lack of understanding!~
My DVD Tracker page

[Redux]

OK,

Seeing as I started this post, I now want to have it closed!! Thanks to everyone who gave their opinions on Dancer in the Dark. I'll rent it first before buying.

Im sorry for those of you involved in the slanging match that seemed to crop up every reply or two. Not what I intended! Maybe somewhere else is best for that sort of thins, or not at all?!

Personal tastes aside, Im looking forward to seeing Dancer, if only to see why it has got you all so ANGRY with each other!

Message to the administrators, I think you can close this post soon!! Thanks!

[mahavishnu]

chlngr, you say that my taste in film is 'clear' because I do not like Hollywood product. This is as if to say there are Hollywood films, which 99.99% of people prefer, and then there are 'art films' which only Maha and a few of his friends like... But this a gross and ridiculous simplification.

For example, some here are warning of the 'experimental' nature of Dancer, yet the film could equally well be criticised for being too mainstream, for using a 'conventional' narrative, for being 'manipulative', shallow and not detatched enough from it's characters. I've seen many people use these arguments, just because no-one puts them forward here doesn't mean they don't exist. I actually take a very middle position on these matters. I love the films of Trier and Kubrick, I'm not convinced by Rohmer or even some Tarkovsky. Thus my opinion/taste/whatever is far from obvious and clear cut - and before making sweeping generalisations maybe Dom should actually see some of the films I am talking about. I mean, christ, for every one of those silly Hollywood genre films... why not watch something a little bit different? Something a little bit challenging, something that, you know makes you actually feel something or makes you think.

There's the real question - why do some people so strongly resist opening up their minds?

[This message has been edited by mahavishnu (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Istagi]

Wow since when was this thread about "what films Maha likes"? I thought it was about Dancer in the Dark.

Stay on topic people

Ambushbug - please do not egg on Maha.

saraswati - If anyone knows who anyone is it is taxi. I would take him at his word

Adjuster - I know Maha irritates you and many others on the board, don't egg him on either.

Maha if you continue with the "My taste in film" line action will be taken. I have asked you before to not bomb threads.

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David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[egman]

Maha-I warned Redux about the experimental aspects of Dancer not because I distrust those things. I said earlier that I bought the film myself, so overall I did like it. However, I think the dramatic elements and the experiment butt heads. Less observant viewers are going to look at the film as some kind of a joke. The drama would have worked better if there was a some detachment. That sounds strange because Trier has filmed his last few films in this way because he felt his previous films(starting backword frm Zentropa) had become too cold. However, if he had backed of a bit, it would not look as if von Trier is mocking Selma and the other characters, thus increasing compassion for the characters. The full-on mellodrama seems just too the top to be accepted by some as anything more than a joke. I do believe that von Trier believed in Selma's conflict, but film as whole walks a very thin line, leaving open for many misinterpetations.

[mahavishnu]

Egman - the best films always walk a very thin line!

Istagi - I didn't bomb anything, I was simply responding to Dom's criticism and also addressing some of the wider issues raised by Dancer in the Dark. And as Redux has said, he has already got the information from this thread that he needed (or was ever going to get). If you want to 'take action' the go right a-fucking-head.

[This message has been edited by mahavishnu (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Ambushbug]

Istagi said... "Ambushbug - please do not egg on Maha."

My statement,

"I can't comment since I haven't seen it, but I'm sure Mahavishnu will be along shortly to tell you why it's just super. "

was not meant to egg Maha on. I simply recalled that he really enjoyed and endorsed this film, and I figured he'd be showing up on the topic before too long. Honestly, no ulterior motive on my part.

AB

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"Unquestionably swashbuckling!"

[Istagi]

I know Ambush but good intentions don't always produce good results.

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David Brown Eyes
Moderator of the Now Playing and software forum.

"Hey thats no fun, she fell right over!"
Istagi's DVD's"

[mahavishnu]

Ambushbug didn't egg me on. Indeed, the thread went on for quite a while before I joined in. It was actually Kiko's comments that Dancer looked the same as Idioterne that drew me into the thread.

Sorry to continue with this at the bottom of this thread, but I tried to start a seperate new topic and Istagi closed it!!!

[Hank]

Mahu,

You should lay off Dom. Everyone on this board including yourself, make it interesting. Dom, is more than entitled to his opinion and for whats its worth his opinion sucks because this movie doesn't even warrant being touched with a 10 foot poll. It flat out sucks. Want to see something good go get Zentropa!!

Bjork is not for everyone and neither is this film.

[mahavishnu]

Europa (Zentropa) is very good, but Dancer in the Dark is far more advanced.

[Dominik Pfleghaar]

Sheesh, you turn your back only two days and the whole world (okay, this thread, anyway) goes mad

Well, since I obviously was the originator of some of the controversy in here, and since this thread is completely derailed anyway, here goes.

Mahavishnu likes it so I wouldn't touch this movie with a ten foot pole anyway." isn't a personal attack then I don't know what is.

This was admittedly personal, but not an attack. It is true that I use your taste in movies as an indicator as to whether I'm likely to like a movie or not, but in no way was I attacking your taste.
Just as I use prominent movie critics to decide if I'm going to like a movie or not (eg If XYZ likesd it, I'm most probably gonna hate/enjoy it).

Which leads us straight to the following:

Oh that's right. I'm sure Dom has seen all the movies I like. Actually, I doubt he's seen even 5% of them. It's thus patronising of him to assume he understands my taste.

You're right, I haven't seen many movies you like. But what you don't see is that I'm coming from the other way round: Since you hate about every movie I happen to like (you have given me more than enough examples on this board so far), I'm pretty safe to assume that I'm gonna hate the ones you like.
I admit this is not a failsafe method to determine whether I'm gonna like or hate a movie, but for me it's good enough.

Again, please note that I'm not atacking your taste, I'm just using it for my advantage sometimes.

and before making sweeping generalisations maybe Dom should actually see some of the films I am talking about.

Sweeping generalisations? Well, to name but one example, I have seen Kubrik's 2001 three times, and I still hate the thought that I can't get these roughly 8 hours of my life back. But that's not the point here and better suited in another thread.

Dancer is the best film of the last ten years!

So I guess you have seen every film of the last ten years.
Or are you, maybe, perhaps, generalizing a wee bit here?

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Unca Dom
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My HT My dvd collection

[Soggy Bagel's Revenge!]

I have only seen two films in my life that were emotionally powerful enough to make me cry. "Carrie" and "Dancer in the Dark". I don't know about the rest of you, but I though that both of those films had something a little more personal and real about them, and I hues that's why they affected me so deeply. AMAZING FILMAKING.

Thanx,
Brook

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[Redux]

CARRIE?!! You mean the way-cool, cultish horror flick from Brian DePalma? Made you cry?! Sorry, but I dont get that one. Unless you mean you cried cause she was picked on and teased. But, boy, did she get revenge?! Love that movie.

If you wanna cry, check out Magnolia. Gets me every time....sniff!!

[KikuchiyoCM]

>If you wanna cry, check out Magnolia

I cried during Magnolia but only at how crap it was

[Redux]

Ooops. You may not make may friends saying stuff like that Kikuchiyo! Plenty of people out there who think that its ace, myself included. Why did you think it was so crap? Too long? (poor excuse!)

I think its one of the best movies to comeout of Hollywood for a LONG time, but hey, what do I know, right?!! Ciao baby.

[Marq]

Cheers, Redux.

I agree. It takes it's time to tell multiple, powerful stories with great dialogue, direction and performances.